robsteve Posted October 21, 2007 Share #21 Posted October 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) As you may know it's been back twice and now shows good resolution and focus accuracy wide open and back focus is down to about 1 inch between f:/2.8 and f:/4.0. Eoin: I tend to shoot the Noctilux from f1 to f1.8 because of this trait. If I have low light but can muster f1.2, I will shoot at f1.2 over f1. At f1.4 it gets even better. Stop down too much and the focus shift kills any sharpness the lens may have had at the more closed f-stop. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Hi robsteve, Take a look here focusing, madness and the Noctilux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sergiolov Posted October 21, 2007 Share #22 Posted October 21, 2007 Very good BW work, Jono. A great present for them, I think Technicalities... expecially for Rob and related to his experiments with tape. I got my Noctilux with the 30% discount. It focuses perfectly. What I noticed, is that the cam has been manually adjusted with a very small file, and has several bumps in the area that contacts the focus roller on the m8, the most prominent between 3 and 10 meters. Not sure if this is clearly visible in the macro shot, handheld with the Viso and a micronikkor. Sergio Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=382131'>More sharing options...
robsteve Posted October 21, 2007 Share #23 Posted October 21, 2007 Very good BW work, Jono. A great present for them, I think Technicalities... expecially for Rob and related to his experiments with tape. I got my Noctilux with the 30% discount. It focuses perfectly. What I noticed, is that the cam has been manually adjusted with a very small file, and has several bumps in the area that contacts the focus roller on the m8, the most prominent between 3 and 10 meters. Not sure if this is clearly visible in the macro shot, handheld with the Viso and a micronikkor. Sergio Sergio: You just answered my question about what the solution to the problem is. It looks like they modified the cam profile. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 21, 2007 Share #24 Posted October 21, 2007 Sergio, I've noticed the filing of the cam on my Noctilux, I know it was not there to the extent it is now since it's travels. When you say you have no focus issues are you saying your lens shows no back focus regardless of aperture?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiolov Posted October 21, 2007 Share #25 Posted October 21, 2007 Eoin, a little test here to show my results. Full open it focuses well at all distances, with the clear arera a bit on the side of frontfocus. Focus variation stopping down (going to backfocus) seems acceptable. Shots from f1 to f4 Sergio Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=382157'>More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 21, 2007 Share #26 Posted October 21, 2007 Ahh, Sergio, I recall now you showed me these images before. About the best example of perfect focus I've seen from this lens. Don't ever sell it IMO I'd be happy with that tiny amount of drift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share #27 Posted October 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) HI Everyone there are too many interesting answers to answer everyone, but thank you for the comments / explanations / interest. My nocti also shows signs' of 'modification' of the cam area, I've only done simple back focusing tests, but Sergio's results look very similar to mine - noticeable, but not dramatic; at a little over a metre, I'm getting a focus shift of about an inch on a 45 deg subject between f1 and f8. I will try taking pictures at infinity (it hadn't occurred to me that I would use the Nocti under such circumstances, but I'll give it a go). As far as the 'sample rate' of the night -- I took about 150 shots, and used 90, as was pointed out, there is camera shake and oof, subject movement was another issue where it is hard to blame Leica! Still, I know that if I'd been using an XXX dSLR under the same circumstances, I would probably have got less 'keepers', and I'd certainly have had less 'captured moments', and I would unquestionably have had more notice from the guests - when they think "what's that old fool doing with a camera and no flash in this light" you KNOW you are on to a winner! This forum provides so much fantastic information - I didn't actually have a problem here, but the welter of useful and informative posts really adds to what one knows about lenses, and as a result helps us all to use them better. On the other hand, the feedback one gets from the pictures has little to do with the technical expertise; people like pictures because they work, not because they are 'good'. I really think that funky lenses like the nocti (and the zeiss 50mm sonnar) can help to produce that kind of image . . . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted October 22, 2007 Share #28 Posted October 22, 2007 On the other hand, the feedback one gets from the pictures has little to do with the technical expertise; people like pictures because they work, not because they are 'good'. I really think that funky lenses like the nocti (and the zeiss 50mm sonnar) can help to produce that kind of image . . . . . Jono: It would be interesting to see how your Sonnar at f1.5 compares to the Noctilux at f1.4. I noticed your other thread on the Sonnar and I don't think the Noctilux is as soft as the Sonnar. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 22, 2007 Share #29 Posted October 22, 2007 I've been doing some more testing today and it's clear my lens is working reasonably well at close distances but falls apart at longer distances. All shot hand-held at f1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=382808'>More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted October 22, 2007 Jono: It would be interesting to see how your Sonnar at f1.5 compares to the Noctilux at f1.4. I noticed your other thread on the Sonnar and I don't think the Noctilux is as soft as the Sonnar. Robert HI Robert Okay - I've done a rough test in the fading light - interesting colour difference as well. I'm not sure that it'll encourage anyone to buy the lenses for their wide open performance, but testing by photographing text in drab lighting isn't really very 'real world' (at least, not my real world!). Both lenses show some focus shift of course, my gut reaction had been that it was more obvious with the sonnar, but that isn't really born out by the results. Incidentally, some child has nabbed my tripod, and there is a possibility of movement on the f8 shots - so beware of coming to any conclusions about losing sharpness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 23, 2007 Share #31 Posted October 23, 2007 I haven't followed all this thread, but I thought I would inject some 'real world' pics shot last Friday as part of a paid job. I was shooting an art exhibition opening, using a variety of lenses on the M8. The following are random selections using the Noctilux. Judge the lens (and me:D ) on these. All pics shot at f1.0. My Noct is not 'perfect' at focus, but I have tested and understood its variations. When appropriate, I use the 'snick' the focus technique to correct as I judge best. It works reasonably well, I think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=383097'>More sharing options...
garyvot Posted October 23, 2007 Share #32 Posted October 23, 2007 Some years ago I wrote a review of the Noctilux. I no longer have that particular lens, but the review is still up, in case any are interested. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 23, 2007 Share #33 Posted October 23, 2007 When appropriate, I use the 'snick' the focus technique to correct as I judge best. It works reasonably well, I think. Your fourth picture is great. What is that focusing technique? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 23, 2007 Share #34 Posted October 23, 2007 Thanks Ruben. It initially involves (for me) the extensive and careful testing of the lens at all apertures I am interested in, particularly f1.0 of course. I noted where the focus varied from the 'set' focus to the subject. In my case, focus is accurate from min. to about 5mtr. From then on, it progressively front focuses. I then 'snick' the focus ring back towards infinity a tad ttheoretically compensate the focus slightly forward again. It sounds a bit guessy, and it is, but it seems to work. I believe this, or variants of it, will become the new "focus fix" for quite a few extreme lenses used on the M8. Much quicker than months 'vacation' in Solms, who it seems, cannot completely cure the problem anyway. They 'fixed' mime and it is pretty good, but still needs the snick trick. EDIT: What I should have made clearer was that having tested the lens thorougly once, you now alway know the 'snick factor' for any given range on that lens, which seems to not be too critical as to risk getting it wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c6gowin Posted October 23, 2007 Share #35 Posted October 23, 2007 I have recently aquired a Noctilux and getting to know it. Based on Sergio's post and macro photo, I took a look and my Noctilux has similar filing on the cam. I haven't yet performed a formal tripod/scale type test, but my copy seems to focus pretty much where I want at f1.0 - f1.2 except at the closest focus point (e.g. 3 ft). I plan to do a formal test later this week as time allows. Mark's post showing his problems with distant subjects got me curious about my Noctilux so I went back and looked at some of my test shots from this past weekend. Ironically, I had taken a couple shots at infinity - one at f1.0 and f4.0 - just to see how it would do. Below is the full frame at f1.0 followed by a crop at f1.0 and a crop at f4.0. Photos were processed in Lightroom for white balance only, crop, and conversion to jpg. 1. Noctilux/M8 Full Frame 1.0 2. Crop f1.0 3. Crop f4.0 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=383140'>More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 23, 2007 Share #36 Posted October 23, 2007 Mark, thanks for posting these. The Noctilux seems to be more of a lens to use at close and medium focus, less at long distance where, if you are exploting its low light capabilities, focus will be more difficult to judge anyway, so it's good to see someone else's long distance shots. With the lens set to infinity and f1, the depth of field runs from 81 metres on this lens. Difficult to judge distance on this picture but it seems that piece of wood is at least that far away and I would be pleased with the same performance. Incidentally, I tried the same test with the 75mm/1.4 (its depth of field at f1.4 starts even further away, 118m). This lens is arguably first cousin of the Noctilux and it provides fine performance at infinity, slightly soft at full aperture, sharpening nicely as you stop down, just as you expect from an older lens design. In my case, it looks like it's just impossible to get the lens barrel close enough to the focal plane even when set to infinity. I think the lens mount needs to be reset for infinity and a replacement focussing cam ground. What I do not know, and only Leica can answer, is whether this lens is so critical that it can only really be adjusted for use on a particular M8, that if it's optimised for that camera, it will be off on film cameras (no issue for me) and will need re-work for any future M. So, today, I'll reject the work done, formally to Leica, and send it in for a third time. Third time lucky, they say, or does that make it the fourth attempt to get it right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 23, 2007 Share #37 Posted October 23, 2007 I feel for you Mark, disappointing to hear and read the lens came back with more issues than it left with. You can be sure the response will be the workshop tested it fully prior to dispatch. Looking at the samples of focus tests here (Sergio and Jono) seem to indicate the a common theme but to lesser degrees, the lens seems to shift focus rearwards from f:/2 - f:/4. this is in line with my own findings but both Sergio and Jono's lenses do this to a lesser degree than mine. I don't feel a further trip to solms is worthwhile, either they are oblivious to the fact in the sample images they take or they are unable to rectify the shift and be honest and upfront about it and say directly that this is a common problem rather than the lens is within spec. There must be a huge tolerance margin by which they judge these things given my experience to date and Marks infinity issues. I for one feel that in my case it would be a pointless exercise to pack it up again for a third time and forth visit for the M8 and be without my camera for a further month. I'll plod along, just tweaking the focus ring back slightly between f:/2.8 and f:/4 whilst consoling my self that leica says everything is fine. We'll see over the coming weeks how other 30% Noctiluxes perform and how their users feel regarding this issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 23, 2007 Share #38 Posted October 23, 2007 Thanks Eoin, I've emailed Solms to see what their reaction and recommendations are. These two images (Nocti and Summilux ASPH, both wide open), included in the email, along with two others from a 75/1.4 and 90 AA say it all really: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'm not expecting the Noctilux to be as good as the Summilux, but it needs to be better... Strange thing is, the Noctilux is quite a simple lens mechanically - a single helicoid and a profiled cam which rotates with the focussing ring. It has nothing like the complexity of the 50/1.4 ASPH or the 75/2 AA. Question for you Noctilux owners: set the lens to minimum focus, you can then see three screws around the rim of the lens barrel, just in front of the focussing ring. As you focus away from closest focus, what is the distance scale reading when those screw holes just start to be obscured? Mine is 1.5mm to the left of "1.5m". I'm wondering whether my lens barrel is set too far fowards in its mount. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'm not expecting the Noctilux to be as good as the Summilux, but it needs to be better... Strange thing is, the Noctilux is quite a simple lens mechanically - a single helicoid and a profiled cam which rotates with the focussing ring. It has nothing like the complexity of the 50/1.4 ASPH or the 75/2 AA. Question for you Noctilux owners: set the lens to minimum focus, you can then see three screws around the rim of the lens barrel, just in front of the focussing ring. As you focus away from closest focus, what is the distance scale reading when those screw holes just start to be obscured? Mine is 1.5mm to the left of "1.5m". I'm wondering whether my lens barrel is set too far fowards in its mount. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36230-focusing-madness-and-the-noctilux/?do=findComment&comment=383293'>More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 23, 2007 Share #39 Posted October 23, 2007 I believe this, or variants of it, will become the new "focus fix" for quite a few extreme lenses used on the M8. Much quicker than months 'vacation' in Solms, who it seems, cannot completely cure the problem anyway. I agree 100%. I would consider a trip to Solms only if the problem is too severe. Maybe the problem is in the manufacture at Canada. They manufacture with a set of tolerance limits. Leica Solms receive the lens finished, and they need to unassemble and reassemble the lens for any important correction. It is likely that the tolerance margins of the ELCAN manufacture have been revised and this could have been a reason for the increment in prices. Another possibility is that ELCAN isn't working "in spec", creating many problems to Leica. All this adds to the well known focus shift problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex7075 Posted October 23, 2007 Share #40 Posted October 23, 2007 Question for you Noctilux owners: set the lens to minimum focus, you can then see three screws around the rim of the lens barrel, just in front of the focussing ring. As you focus away from closest focus, what is the distance scale reading when those screw holes just start to be obscured? Mine is 1.5mm to the left of "1.5m". I'm wondering whether my lens barrel is set too far fowards in its mount. Interesting thread. On my Noctilux, that focuses well at all distances, the screw holes start to "touch" the focusing ring between 1.5 and 2 meters. The rangefinder had been tweaked a little to match the Noct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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