malcolm.mcintyre Posted October 5, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can any flash unit, (on or off camera), offer genuine TTL function with the M8, apart from the very limited SF 24 D? I know the Nikon SB26 and SB800 units don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Hi malcolm.mcintyre, Take a look here TTL flash on M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted October 5, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 5, 2007 Can any flash unit, (on or off camera), offer genuine TTL function with the M8, apart from the very limited SF 24 D? I know the Nikon SB26 and SB800 units don't. I don't think so. Even the SF 24D doesn't offer proper TTL (it measures the light from a pre-flash). I think it is the same with the Metz 54 unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted October 5, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 5, 2007 Can any flash unit, (on or off camera), offer genuine TTL function with the M8, apart from the very limited SF 24 D? I know the Nikon SB26 and SB800 units don't. There are many threads about this, some even recent. The 24D is full TTL. All digital cameras with TTL have to use a pre-flash for calculations. There is no film to bounce light off of during the exposure like film SLR's can do. The Metz 54MZ and other metz use GNC mode I believe. I have found in my meager flash shots with my Metz and my 24D that there is minimal if any difference in flash photography between the M8 TTL mode and an automatic flash mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 5, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 5, 2007 NO. Digital cameras don't offer ttl -- they can offer something called gnc (guide number calc?). In this case, the camera fires a pre-flash (perhaps of lower output) and calculates the exposure based on the returned light. It then fires the correct flash and takes the picture. The M8 does this in a slow fashion, according to previous posts. In any case, it involves pre-flash. With my M8 I find that it calculates an exposure that does not receive enough light by about 1 stop. You may prefer to use the flash on auto, whereby the flash is set to auto and the M8 has its aperture set accordingly. This mode uses a single flash burst that many prefer to the pre-flash, particularly when shooting animate subjects (say what you will about your portrait subjects...). In film cameras, such as the M6-ttl and M7, in ttl-mode the meter reads the light bouncing off the emulsion of the film and terminates the flash accordingly, using a single flash burst. Digital cameras are not able to read this sort of bounce light from the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 5, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 5, 2007 NO. Digital cameras don't offer ttl -- they can offer something called gnc (guide number calc?). In this case, the camera fires a pre-flash (perhaps of lower output) and calculates the exposure based on the returned light. It then fires the correct flash and takes the picture. The M8 does this in a slow fashion, according to previous posts. In any case, it involves pre-flash. With my M8 I find that it calculates an exposure that does not receive enough light by about 1 stop. You may prefer to use the flash on auto, whereby the flash is set to auto and the M8 has its aperture set accordingly. This mode uses a single flash burst that many prefer to the pre-flash, particularly when shooting animate subjects (say what you will about your portrait subjects...). In film cameras, such as the M6-ttl and M7, in ttl-mode the meter reads the light bouncing off the emulsion of the film and terminates the flash accordingly, using a single flash burst. Digital cameras are not able to read this sort of bounce light from the sensor. Bill I believe you are correct with the M8 but that is not true with Nikon DSLR cameras. It has true TTL flash. It take in to account the distance the lens is focused at, the focal length of the lens (and set the flash head zoom to the proper FL), the available light coming through the lens and the f/stop you have the lens set to and then adjusts the flash output to suit the scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted October 5, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 5, 2007 NO. Digital cameras don't offer ttl -- they can offer something called gnc (guide number calc?). In this case, the camera fires a pre-flash (perhaps of lower output) and calculates the exposure based on the returned light. It then fires the correct flash and takes the picture. The M8 does this in a slow fashion, according to previous posts. In any case, it involves pre-flash. With my M8 I find that it calculates an exposure that does not receive enough light by about 1 stop. You may prefer to use the flash on auto, whereby the flash is set to auto and the M8 has its aperture set accordingly. This mode uses a single flash burst that many prefer to the pre-flash, particularly when shooting animate subjects (say what you will about your portrait subjects...). In film cameras, such as the M6-ttl and M7, in ttl-mode the meter reads the light bouncing off the emulsion of the film and terminates the flash accordingly, using a single flash burst. Digital cameras are not able to read this sort of bounce light from the sensor. What I was meaning is that the flash calculation is made through the lens- the preflash light is collected by the taking lens and that may give a GNC calculation. Flashes in automatic mode can do this or come close to it but they are not TTL in that sense- they have their own sensor to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 5, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 5, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) What I was meaning is that the flash calculation is made through the lens- the preflash light is collected by the taking lens and that may give a GNC calculation. Flashes in automatic mode can do this or come close to it but they are not TTL in that sense- they have their own sensor to do that. Lloyd, as I noted above, at least with the copy of the M8 that I have, the gnc-based calculation is not correct. I find the exposure too dark by about a stop. The auto setting, where my Metz 54 and both of my Vivitar 283's evaluate their own flash burst, and where the camera is set to the recommended f-stop, gives the correct exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 5, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 5, 2007 Digital cameras don't offer ttl You mean, E-TTL II or i-TTL aren’t TTL? TTL means “through the lens“, and indeed the cameras are measuring flash light through the lens. It’s a pre-flash, and has to be, but measuring during the exposure, as was possible with analog SLRs, is not a defining characteristic of TTL flash systems. It just happens that the first TTL systems worked that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 5, 2007 Share #9 Posted October 5, 2007 I think GNC mode is a true TTL metering method - the metering is done through the lens and takes account of shooting aperture and the fact that what the lens is looking at may not be what the sensor on the flash is looking at. The timing of the pre-flash used to be all wrong, seems a bit better on 1.107 but the flash metering of the M8 is hardly cutting edge compared to what us Nikon users take as standard. The flash itself is a bit of a pony as well. Sadly, Nikon flashes work in manual and conventional auto mode on the M8 but nothing TTL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 5, 2007 Share #10 Posted October 5, 2007 Has anyone tried the Panasonic flash DMW-FL360? It's fully compatible with the Panasonic DMC-LC1 (Digilux2), DMC-L1 (Digilux3), FZ30 and FZ-50. Any thoughts? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 5, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 5, 2007 Has anyone tried the Panasonic flash DMW-FL360? It's fully compatible with the Panasonic DMC-LC1 (Digilux2), DMC-L1 (Digilux3), FZ30 and FZ-50. That’s essentially an Olympus flash for the FourThirds system. Panasonic adopted the Olympus TTL system for the FZ50 (and thus the V-Lux 1), but that’s the only compact Panasonic supporting TTL. The flash will work with various other cameras, but not in TTL mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 5, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 5, 2007 Michael, I thought that the Panasonic FZ30 and DMC-LC1 (Digilux2) had the same flash system. The optional flash for the Panasonic DMC-LC1 was the DMW-FL28 which is also the optional flash for the FZ30. You can take a look at Panasonic site: DMW-FL28 - Other - Shop and Compare at Panasonic Panasonic - More Images for DMW-FL360 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 8, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 8, 2007 I got this morning the Panasonic DMW-FL 28 (originally made for the DMC-LC1 -Digilux2- and DMC-FZ30/20/10) which is 100% compatible with SF-24D It works like a charm with the M8 but it's difficult to find because it's discontinued; though some units are still available on Online Shops for about 150 € (cheaper in the US). I have also the SF-24D but the DMW-FL 28 offers extended possibilities: - Code number 28 - Tiltable reflector - Tinted windshield - Slave function - 2xAA batteries (option: rechargable batteries) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted October 8, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2007 Michael, I thought that the Panasonic FZ30 and DMC-LC1 (Digilux2) had the same flash system. The optional flash for the Panasonic DMC-LC1 was the DMW-FL28 which is also the optional flash for the FZ30. You can take a look at Panasonic site: DMW-FL28 - Other - Shop and Compare at Panasonic Panasonic - More Images for DMW-FL360 . Thanks, I will give this a try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffordjim Posted October 9, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 9, 2007 I got this morning the Panasonic DMW-FL 28 (originally made for the DMC-LC1 -Digilux2- and DMC-FZ30/20/10) which is 100% compatible with SF-24D It works like a charm with the M8 but it's difficult to find because it's discontinued; though some units are still available on Online Shops for about 150 € (cheaper in the US). I have also the SF-24D but the DMW-FL 28 offers extended possibilities: - Code number 28 - Tiltable reflector - Tinted windshield - Slave function - 2xAA batteries (option: rechargable batteries) . Manuel, Does this flash work down to f1.4 or f1.2 in TTL or in Auto on the M8? (I'm loving the Nokton and would love a dedicated flash for it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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