M6 Loading film Shutter button...problem?

[AllNoAll]

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Hey, All,

I just got an M6 classic, and it seems to be in perfect condition. All the shutter speeds sound great, the shutter curtains look good, The rangefinder is clear and clean, it seems to be metering accurate, I can't find anything that would make me worry at all. It truly looks to be in great shape inside and out. I went to load my first roll of film, and I had an issue. I'm not sure if it was me doing something wrong or...?

I loaded a roll of Cinestill 800T per the diagram, and I'm confident I was doing this correctly by simply pulling the leader through the tulip, making sure the film notches were being taking up by the sprockets, and advancing the film advance lever. The problem was the first two times when I advanced the film one stroke onto the tulip the shutter button would not longer depress. I had to rewind the film each time, take the film out, and start again. The 3rd time I literally exactly replicated the diagram where I just put the tip of the leader into the tulip and advanced, and that worked. The film is advancing as normal now, and I have verified it is moving by watching the rewind knob. Is this normal? Are you not supposed to pull the leader all the way through the tulip? Also, I assume the spring inside the tulip is normal?

Thanks!

[madNbad]

Pull just enough leader to slip into the take up tulip. Make sure the film cassette is all the way in then put the baseplate on before winding. Wind twice and then snug the rewind crank a bit. Most users think it should be more complicated and there’s a need to check the film is engaging the sprockets. That is what leads to mis-loads. With a little practice, you should be able to load the camera in less than thirty seconds. Take a roll and practice loading and unloading. You’ll find it’s easier than you think. Enjoy your new M6 and don’t get frustrated.

Edited November 23, 2022 by madNbad

[madNbad]

As an addendum, yes the spring is part of the tulip.

[AllNoAll]

15 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Pull just enough leader to slip into the take up tulip. Make sure the film cassette is all the way in then put the baseplate on before winding. Wind twice and then snug the rewind crank a bit. Most users think it should be more complicated and there’s a need to check the film is engaging the sprockets. That is what leads to mid-loads. With a little practice, you should be able to load the camera in less than thirty seconds. Take a roll and practice loading and unloading. You’ll find it’s easier than you think. Enjoy your new M6 and don’t get frustrated.

Great advice! Thanks! I was pulling the leader all the way through the tulip the first two times, and meticulously checking that the sprockets were in the holes on the film before advancing the film. I wonder if the shutter didn’t work because the film wasn’t advancing fully because of how I loaded it? The shutter and film advance work flawlessly before I tried to load film into the camera. Once merely put just the beginning of the leader into the tulip and advance the film it worked.

[250swb]

36 minutes ago, AllNoAll said:

Great advice! Thanks! I was pulling the leader all the way through the tulip the first two times, and meticulously checking that the sprockets were in the holes on the film before advancing the film. I wonder if the shutter didn’t work because the film wasn’t advancing fully because of how I loaded it? The shutter and film advance work flawlessly before I tried to load film into the camera. Once merely put just the beginning of the leader into the tulip and advance the film it worked.

The film should still advance even if you've put the film all the way through the tulip, you are just left with a bent end to the film after you wind it back so no big deal. The advice to simply put the end of the film in the tulip stresses that it isn't complicated and you don't need to overthink loading the film. Why the shutter button doesn't work is another issue, the first thing to check is if you have a fingers and thumbs problem, like did you actually reach the end of the stroke when you cocked the shutter or just thought you did. 

[Huss]

The 3rd time I literally exactly replicated the diagram where I just put the tip of the leader into the tulip and advanced, and that worked.

 

Is your answer.

[AllNoAll]

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9 hours ago, 250swb said:

The film should still advance even if you've put the film all the way through the tulip, you are just left with a bent end to the film after you wind it back so no big deal. The advice to simply put the end of the film in the tulip stresses that it isn't complicated and you don't need to overthink loading the film. Why the shutter button doesn't work is another issue, the first thing to check is if you have a fingers and thumbs problem, like did you actually reach the end of the stroke when you cocked the shutter or just thought you did. 

Ya, I’m pretty sure the camera is broken. I’ve tried multiple different times to get the shutter to trigger with film loaded, without consistent success. It works about 10% of the time when film is loaded, but 100% of the time without film in the camera. It does look like there is some side-to-side movement in the film advance lever when trying to advance the film with the shutter cocked and film loaded. It’s gonna need to go out to service unless someone has a suggestion to self resolve?

[Hintsalae]

Sounds like the film advance system is out of sync. Theres disc under the tulip which intervenes with shutter button rod if film isn't advanced completely. It you can fire camera without the film, but with film you can't here's your problem. The film tension pulls tulip and rotates the disk into wrong position. Without adventurous mind and skills to disasseble top assembly you can't do anything.

 

[Hintsalae]

You can try this if you remove bottom plate and take the film out. Advance film one time and observe which direction the tulip rotates. After advancing turn tulip against that rotation until you can feel it stop/rotate with resistance. If keep it in that position and try fire shutter same time, it should fire if camera works normally. If it's out of sync it

Ps. I checked and at least in M5 you can pull the tulip out of the body and inspect the disk/rod assemvly with ease. The operation is pretty self explanatory when you see it.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Hintsalae

[AllNoAll]

3 hours ago, Hintsalae said:

You can try this if you remove bottom plate and take the film out. Advance film one time and observe which direction the tulip rotates. After advancing turn tulip against that rotation until you can feel it stop/rotate with resistance. If keep it in that position and try fire shutter same time, it should fire if camera works normally. If it's out of sync it

Ps. I checked and at least in M5 you can pull the tulip out of the body and inspect the disk/rod assemvly with ease. The operation is pretty self explanatory when you see it.

Great suggestions! I reached out to Dag on this and his emails back to me are below. I did what he said and verified my winding system needs to be re-timed. I had just purchased it from a local camera store, they had a different M6 in stock, so they exchanged it for me and are sending this one out to have it serviced.

”its common for the M6 camera to be 1 gear tooth off in the film advance timing. It'll work until you have the drag from the film, remove the baseplate, lift the backdoor up, you can see the sprocket gear to the right of the picture frame area, with your left-hand put your pinky inside the take-up spool & your left thumb on the sprocket gear, wind the camera while putting pressure on the 2 items, keep the pressure on them & try shooting the camera, it probably won't shoot until you release pressure. If so then the winding system needs to be re-timed“

Thanks everyone!