I cancelled my M6 2022 order

[mshchem]

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I bought a new Nikon D6 for $6500 when they first came out. Nikon had a adequate supply, I think I waited for a week,  same story with the Fuji XPro3, stock was in place so once the embargo was lifted people who pre ordered got their camera.

I think Leica is overwhelmed with orders, I suspect that it's "All hands on deck" which is fabulous, but it feels like waiting for Christmas to come. Hopefully we will have our new M6 by this winter solstice, or the summer equinox 🤔

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[Huss]

6 hours ago, willeica said:

 

I find the rush to go on waiting lists for an almost 40 year old camera design intriguing. There are a lot of copies of the 'old' M6 available everywhere. 

William 

Yes but you do know the new M6 is the old M6 in name only, right?  It’s like saying why buy a new MP when you can buy a 40 year old M6 instead?

And ultimately it comes down to one’s budget.  Given the choice of a new M6, or a 40 year old one with now ancient electronics, a less effective meter read out, an rf patch that flares and zinc construction, wear and tear, who would choose the 40 year old camera if buying the new one was a viable option?  And saying the 40 year old one is cheaper means it is not a viable option as you have decided that you have budgetary constraints.  If you didn’t, cost would not be a factor.

 

[Huss]

4 minutes ago, mshchem said:

I bought a new Nikon D6 for $6500 when they first came out. Nikon had a adequate supply, I think I waited for a week,  same story with the Fuji XPro3, stock was in place so once the embargo was lifted people who pre ordered got their camera.

I think Leica is overwhelmed with orders, I suspect that it's "All hands on deck" which is fabulous, but it feels like waiting for Christmas to come. Hopefully we will have our new M6 by this winter solstice, or the summer equinox 🤔

Leica is overwhelmed with orders, talking to the dealers they say the response to the M6 has been astounding.  So much for all those bloggers saying Leica messed up but I digress.  But Leica is also overwhelmed with demand for the other film Ms.  The only one I see in stock at the moment is the silver M-A.

Leica just doesn't’ make many film cameras, and I think this is intentional.  They remember when they had to discount the original M6 and do not want to relive that.

[willeica]

31 minutes ago, Huss said:

Yes but you do know the new M6 is the old M6 in name only, right?  It’s like saying why buy a new MP when you can buy a 40 year old M6 instead?

And ultimately it comes down to one’s budget.  Given the choice of a new M6, or a 40 year old one with now ancient electronics, a less effective meter read out, an rf patch that flares and zinc construction, wear and tear, who would choose the 40 year old camera if buying the new one was a viable option?  And saying the 40 year old one is cheaper means it is not a viable option as you have decided that you have budgetary constraints.  If you didn’t, cost would not be a factor.

 

I have used Leicas that are nearly 100 years old to take photos and other camera makes that are over 100 years old, so a 40 year old camera holds no terrors for me. An 'old' M6 will yield perfectly good exposures if you know what you are doing. I was just bemused at waiting lists for an old design when multiple examples of that are available. Budget has nothing to do this. My vintage Leica collection would be worth more than a large number of new M6 items. If you are more re-assured with the new model then you should, of course, buy one. As I said already, it is a lovely camera.

William 

[willeica]

37 minutes ago, Huss said:

Leica is overwhelmed with orders, talking to the dealers they say the response to the M6 has been astounding.  So much for all those bloggers saying Leica messed up but I digress.  But Leica is also overwhelmed with demand for the other film Ms.  The only one I see in stock at the moment is the silver M-A.

Leica just doesn't’ make many film cameras, and I think this is intentional.  They remember when they had to discount the original M6 and do not want to relive that.

This is actually good news. There are large numbers of people, both young and old, going towards film photography, some returning there. Leica is right to keep a foot in the film market, but the company might, perhaps, also look at the younger, more impecunious, section of the market. The 'old' M6 was OK for them when it was at 1 K, but now that it is hitting 3K it is beyond the reach of many.

William 

 

[Huss]

2 minutes ago, willeica said:

I have used Leicas that are nearly 100 years old to take photos and other camera makes that are over 100 years old, so a 40 year old camera holds no terrors for me. An 'old' M6 will yield perfectly good exposures if you know what you are doing. I was just bemused at waiting lists for an old design when multiple examples of that are available. Budget has nothing to do this. My vintage Leica collection would be worth more than a large number of new M6 items. If you are more re-assured with the new model then you should, of course, buy one. As I said already, it is a lovely camera.

William 

Of course your M6, whatever the age, will take excellent pics.

That’s not the point.  The point is it is not the new M6 which is a different camera, and it is new.  You are asked why people want the new one.  Simple.  They do not want an old one when there is an improved one brand new.  
Would anyone pick the old one over the new one if the price was the same?  Would you? No.

The new one appeals to those who see the value in buying a new camera.  

[Matlock]

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7 minutes ago, willeica said:

I have used Leicas that are nearly 100 years old to take photos and other camera makes that are over 100 years old, so a 40 year old camera holds no terrors for me. An 'old' M6 will yield perfectly good exposures if you know what you are doing. I was just bemused at waiting lists for an old design when multiple examples of that are available. Budget has nothing to do this. My vintage Leica collection would be worth more than a large number of new M6 items. If you are more re-assured with the new model then you should, of course, buy one. As I said already, it is a lovely camera.

William 

I have, today, been out taking photos with a camera made in1917 which was given to me by my aunt in 1953.

[Huss]

1 minute ago, willeica said:

This is actually good news. There are large numbers of people, both young and old, going towards film photography, some returning there. Leica is right to keep a foot in the film market, but the company might, perhaps, also look at the younger, more impecunious, section of the market. The 'old' M6 was OK for them when it was at 1 K, but now that it is hitting 3K it is beyond the reach of many.

William 

 

“They” were not interested in the M6 when it was $1k.  It basically was not on their radar, which is why you could get one for $1k.  The film resurgence had not yet taken hold.  But now that it has, and the camera has become popular, the price has jumped.

put it another way, the M6 was not yet ‘cool’ when you could get one for $1k!

[Huss]

3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I have, today, been out taking photos with a camera made in1917 which was given to me by my aunt in 1953.

Nice!  Here’s a pic I took w my #2 Kodak folding autographic Brownie from 1915, light leaks and all!  I think the light leaks add to the pic.

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[Matlock]

2 minutes ago, Huss said:

Nice!  Here’s a pic I took w my #2 Kodak folding autographic Brownie from 1915, light leaks and all!  I think the light leaks add to the pic.

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Mine is a 2A Folding Autographic Brownie too and suffered from the same light leaks. After using yards of tape to very little effect I changed the bellows. That was in about 1962.

[willeica]

5 minutes ago, Huss said:

Of course your M6, whatever the age, will take excellent pics.

That’s not the point.  The point is it is not the new M6 which is a different camera, and it is new.  You are asked why people want the new one.  Simple.  They do not want an old one when there is an improved one brand new.  
Would anyone pick the old one over the new one if the price was the same?  Would you? No.

The new one appeals to those who see the value in buying a new camera.  

I think you are getting way too worked up about this. I have no problem with people buying a 'new' M6. I was just bemused that some of the waiting list /cancel order 'culture' associated with new consumer electronics was being extended to what is basically a re-issued 40 year old design. Would such 'waiting list people' have bought an M6 12 months ago? I presume you can see the irony in this. 

23 minutes ago, Huss said:

“They” were not interested in the M6 when it was $1k.  It basically was not on their radar, which is why you could get one for $1k.  The film resurgence had not yet taken hold.  But now that it has, and the camera has become popular, the price has jumped.

put it another way, the M6 was not yet ‘cool’ when you could get one for $1k!

'Cool' is not a term that fits in my vocabulary, but the demand for film cameras and film photography has been on the increase for anything up to 10 years. This is what has impacted on the demand for and prices of older cameras. There is an interesting market segment which is being served by both old cheap cameras and also new cheap cameras by the likes of Lomography and Agfa etc. Maybe Leica might wish to have a look at this. This market segment is being driven by many factors and not just 'cool'. 

22 minutes ago, Huss said:

Nice!  Here’s a pic I took w my #2 Kodak folding autographic Brownie from 1915, light leaks and all!  I think the light leaks add to the pic.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Nice photo. Below is a photo which I took with a VPK Autographic (1915-1919) which has been published in a book. The light streaks are caused by light leaks in the bellows. Sometimes poor camera condition can make for more interesting photos. This one involved some serendipity. 

William 

 

[Huss]

10 minutes ago, willeica said:

I think you are getting way too worked up about this. I have no problem with people buying a 'new' M6. I was just bemused that some of the waiting list /cancel order 'culture' associated with new consumer electronics was being extended to what is basically a re-issued 40 year old design. Would such 'waiting list people' have bought an M6 12 months ago? I presume you can see the irony in this. 

 

 

I don’t see any irony in wanting to buy a new improved version of a classic camera.

People who had the original M6 often complained about the range finder flaring. Or the zinc construction.  Or the two arrow meter readout where you had to compare to the relative brightness of the two arrows.  It’s why Leica release the MP, it addressed all those issues.

But some people still liked the other things that the M6 offered, like the film advance and rewind levers.  So now, finally, Leica offers the best of both worlds in one camera.  And judging by the overwhelming demand for it, they nailed it.  I find it hard to understand how you do not see the attraction of a new improved camera over an old one. 
Simple question - given the choice, would you pick the old M6 over the new M6?

[Huss]

48 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Mine is a 2A Folding Autographic Brownie too and suffered from the same light leaks. After using yards of tape to very little effect I changed the bellows. That was in about 1962.

I’m keeping the light leaks.  I have plenty of light tight cameras, this one creates images the others cannot!

[BradS]

Whether it is a new design or an old design is debatable but really not the issue. It is, in actual fact, a red herring (with which you must chop down the largest tree in the wood!)

The issue is that it is new...as opposed to used, pre-owned, etc... 

New, full stop. 

 

 

and, incidentally, I own an M6 classic (ca. 1992) and would consider trading it in on one of the new 2022 M6 for the upgraded 3 LED meter (and factory warranty) alone. The zinc zits and finder flare are nits that are not worth picking!

Edited November 12, 2022 by BradS

[cj3209]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Of course your M6, whatever the age, will take excellent pics.

That’s not the point.  The point is it is not the new M6 which is a different camera, and it is new.  You are asked why people want the new one.  Simple.  They do not want an old one when there is an improved one brand new.  
Would anyone pick the old one over the new one if the price was the same?  Would you? No.

The new one appeals to those who see the value in buying a new camera.  

I generally agree with this but I decided not to wait next year (or longer) for a 'new' M6.  Instead, I picked up a mint BP MP for a good price - I'm happy.  Also happy for the new M6 owners.

I do hope that Leica doesn't follow the Rolex model which is where most people gladly pay a premium over MSRP.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

I don’t see any irony in wanting to buy a new improved version of a classic camera.

That is not my point. It is the match or mismatch between the modern online consumerist sharing of ' I'm 11th on a waiting list' or 'I've cancelled my order' type stuff and a 40 year old design that intrigues me. That is where the irony lies. 

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Simple question - given the choice, would you pick the old M6 over the new M6?

I don't want for film cameras. As a collector, I have perhaps 40 to 50 film Leicas and I have film cameras made by other manufacturers. My interest in collecting would naturally point me towards the older item. This is not an A or B situation for me.

William  

Edited November 12, 2022 by willeica

[mshchem]

The Knights who say "Ni!" have been cited as an example of intentional disregard for historical accuracy in neo-medievalism, which may be contrasted with the casual disregard for historical accuracy inherent in more traditional works

[Huss]

6 hours ago, willeica said:

That is not my point. It is the match or mismatch between the modern online consumerist sharing of ' I'm 11th on a waiting list' or 'I've cancelled my order' type stuff and a 40 year old design that intrigues me. That is where the irony lies. 

I don't want for film cameras. As a collector, I have perhaps 40 to 50 film Leicas and I have film cameras made by other manufacturers. My interest in collecting would naturally point me towards the older item. This is not an A or B situation for me.

William  

I don’t find anything particularly intriguing about simple supply and demand economics, nor anything ironic about it either.

And i do see how you didn’t answer the very basic question of which camera would you take, given the choice - a new M6 or a 40 year old M6?  Because the answer of that is exactly why people buy new cameras which is why you choose to ignore it.  

 

 

 

 

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[Huss]

7 hours ago, cj3209 said:

I generally agree with this but I decided not to wait next year (or longer) for a 'new' M6.  Instead, I picked up a mint BP MP for a good price - I'm happy.  Also happy for the new M6 owners.

I do hope that Leica doesn't follow the Rolex model which is where most people gladly pay a premium over MSRP.

The new M6 is an MP, so that’s a great call.  And if you want that BP finish, that is the only place you will get it.

[lmans]

I can understand people waiting for the M6, being on a list etc.... The excitement of a new Leica camera is something many of us have been through, waiting list or not, or....just waiting in the mail for it to be shipped. 

I am not in the market for a new M6 as I have an old M6....and more importantly, I have the MA, which I feel is more the essence of 'what I regard' as camera purity. But I am certainly not here to to take away from the M6, new or old.... jim