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Price increase Oct. 01, 2007 - buy until tomorrow or is earlier decision needed?

citrus

By citrus
in Leica M8 / Leica M8.2

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Olsen

Olsen

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'Buying up America' is something that the arabs have been busy doing for a long time. Look up who is the largest shareholder of Citicorp, - thisn guy: #13 Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud - Forbes.com

 

How he was lured into that investment should be interesting to know... A trip to Vegas..?

 

The Saudi's have 800 billion US$ in their Future Generation Fund. The whole oil producing Middle East the 'purchasing power' runs up at 3,5 trillion $. - Still that is small money compared to european pension funds, banks & companies if coordinated.

 

And look at the dollar: Dollar In The Doldrums - Forbes.com

 

And the US Stock Market is 'stuffed up' with printing of more dollars...Help!

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ArtZ

ArtZ

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This is rather interesting conversation even it has nothing to do with photography...

 

1)

Long term foreign exchange hedging is quite common for all multi nationals with costs and income in foreign currency. 'It costs money' to use this service. In a way you are splitting your profit with your bank. What you do is to buy or sell foreign currency in the 'forward market'. This is no waranty for 'good' and 'favourable' currency rates. Quite on the contrary. As my boss sayes; trading forward is like betting with the bank. The bank usually wins. The company I am working for do less than 50% of our currency trade 'forward'.

 

EADS? I wish them good luck...

 

This is partly true, I agree. My point is Europe could never compete with asian countries, including India, in terms of "main-d'oeuvre" costs. The only area where we can compete is quality and bringing to the market high technological products. As far we can produce these products, other countries will be ready to buy then dispite the price. Germans are extremely good in industrial machinery. Even upcomming countries are ready to pay this price because they know that to buy this products is more profitable in long term basis than buying entry quality products.

 

2)

That China should sell their US treasury bills in such a way that their value will crash is quite unrealistic. Thanks God. It would spell the end of sivilisation as we know it

 

I don't think that will happens either. My point was that China prefers to invest more buying US companies (eg. a part of IBM has been sold to Chineese investors) and I think this policy will become in the next few years a serious problem for the US

 

3)

I am no big fan of Sarkozy, but on the issue of the uneccessary strong Euro I agree with him. It will bring unemployment and slow world trade. Why the germans should wish for a strong Euro is beond me. They are the worlds largest exporter. Sure, countries with a high foreign dept, like Italy, will have to cover a lower interest cost with a high local currency: I.e.lower taxes. That Sarkozy offers tax relief to the richest will not create growth - bigger cake, only a more unfair way of splitting the cake. But this must be the way the french wants to have it. He was elected....

 

Well, not me! As Charles de Gaulle used to say "Les Français sont des veaux" (French people are calves -meaning stupid like a calf). This explains how Sarkozy has been elected: Good marketing, big TV shows, extreme right wing seduction... but those who voted for him started to realize that they made a big mistake. The situation here it getting very similar to the US and Bush. People are just waiking up from a dream.

 

4)

Sure, the employees of Leica etc. can reap the advantages of a strong currency. Like lower taxes (less interest payable on foreign debt), lower prices of imported goods and energy. - As long as they have a job. I guess that the large german exporters will start laying off people next spring.

 

As stated in point 1) Leica exporting business is doing fine because Leica's quality is well known over the World. If Leica products lose their reputation of high quality products, then it could happen that Leica employees may lose their jobs...

 

Growth in most european countries is more than 3% which is better that in the US. Economists don't see unemployment being a problem in the EU in the next years. Even the Central European Bank won't reduce interest rates because the economy is doing well.

 

5)

Norway is not in the Euro zone. Which I think is unfortunate; the less currencies the better. Neither are we members of the European Union. Which I think is just fine. EU offers nothing for ordinary people. But our problem is our super-strong Norwegian Kroners which has increased close to 100% towards dollars in 10 years. - Which is just fine with all the importers (rubber shoes & earthmoving equipment and all that), but hell for norwegian exporters.

 

Well, that's a pity... but you're not going to vote every 10 years to see if you agree or disagree to joint the EU ;) You say that Norway has problems to export due to the NOK high value. In fact you sell 85% to the EU (mainly fish and energy). If the NOK is that high and the Euro low, I don't think you will manage to export 85% of your production into the European market. Please, pray to keep the Euro high! :)

 

 

And silly me thought the export business would be suffering, because they get paid in foreign currency, which isn't as much worth as it used to be when they negotiated or fixed prices.

 

And because of that, they need cover by insurances in order to compensate those losses.

 

:eek:

 

Hummm... how is the IRC command line /IGNORE on this forum?

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Olsen

Olsen

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This is rather interesting conversation even it has nothing to do with photography...

 

No it hasn't. Very interesting in these changing times..

 

This is partly true, I agree. My point is Europe could never compete with asian countries, including India, in terms of "main-d'oeuvre" costs. The only area where we can compete is quality and bringing to the market high technological products. As far we can produce these products, other countries will be ready to buy then dispite the price. Germans are extremely good in industrial machinery. Even upcomming countries are ready to pay this price because they know that to buy this products is more profitable in long term basis than buying entry quality products.

 

No, we can't compete, but we could set social and salaries standards for our own markets to prevent that people in, say, China are exploited just to provide us with cheap jeans.

 

 

Well, not me! As Charles de Gaulle used to say "Les Français sont des veaux" (French people are calves -meaning stupid like a calf). This explains how Sarkozy has been elected: Good marketing, big TV shows, extreme right wing seduction... but those who voted for him started to realize that they made a big mistake. The situation here it getting very similar to the US and Bush. People are just waiking up from a dream.

 

Charles de Gaulle was a wise guy. Hum. Don't misunderstand me; the same could be said about the norwegians. With the same kind of cheap media tricks we have had to see a ultra conservative party win 25 - 30% of parlament seats here in Norway. They do fine little with imigrants - the issue that arouse feelings, but 'privitize' (sell to friends of the party for a song) just everything.

 

My father was at a big party - at Savoy Hotel, London, celebrating 'The Bridgehead' - the Normandie landing in 44' at which Charles de Gaulle participated, - of which my father was very proud of. At this party: He, my father, that is, fell out of a window, broke his arm....

 

He crossed Marble Arch the next morning with his arm in plaster. He survived three landings in the Med, but when Londoners gave him sigarettes and chocolate the morning after the Normandie landing it was 'the only time he was celebrated as a war hero...' he said.

 

 

 

As stated in point 1) Leica exporting business is doing fine because Leica's quality is well known over the World. If Leica products lose their reputation of high quality products, then I could happen that Leica employees may lose their jobs...

 

Sure, but it is doubtful if they make enough money to survive the future...

 

Growth in most european countries is more than 3% which is better that in the US. Economists don't see unemployment being a problem in the EU in the next years. Even the Central European Bank won't reduce interest rates because the economy is doing well.

 

yes, but.... Our wealth and growth have been based on a bonanza export to USA - based on debt. Now the americans face a uphill struggle trying to pay a debt bill that is growing in pace with the falling dollar.

 

 

 

Well, that's a pity... but you're not going to vote every 10 years to see if you agree or disagree to joint the EU ;) You say that Norway has problems to export due to the NOK high value. In fact you sell 85% to the EU (mainly fish and energy). If the NOK is that high and the Euro low, I don't think you will manage to export 85% of your production into the European market. Please, pray to keep the Euro high! :)

 

We have had two referendums on the EU membership question in 35 years. The norwegian politician proposing another vote is finished in politics. The question is dead. Having Euro as a currency is a more popular question. That could happen in a few years.

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Olsen

Olsen

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Microsoft will buy Brazil before Brazil buys Microsoft :D

 

Microsoft has a current market value of about 275 bill.$. Twice the size of IBM, but no. 66 on the list of companies in USA. The market value less than, say, the pension funds of tiny nation like Norway or Singapore. Both of well 4 mill. inhabitants with 365 - 370 bill.US$ in pension funds. Which isn't really that much. Microsoft's assets is not more than 66 bill.$. - A lot of brains, but little real estate. A crash of the stock market and Microsoft could become really cheap and well within reach of what european banks could finance a bid of if they want to.

 

Brazil's net worth - as a nation - is enormously much bigger, - despite a huge foreign debt. A nation of 190 million people, wast natural resources and a GDP of 1,655 trillion US$... The value of Microsoft equals about the total assets of the two largest brazilian banks combined; Banco Bradesco and Banco do Brazil. We can conclude that Bill Gates has nothing to fear from the brazilians. - Or vice versa.

 

But...

 

As mentioned, Saudi Arabia has a Future Generation Fund of 800 bill. US$. The whole oil producing Middle East has funds totaling 3,5 trillion US$. To put things in perspective. Driving to work, Bill could find a camel parked at the chairman of the board-spot.

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Venkman

Venkman

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Hummm... how is the IRC command line /IGNORE on this forum?

 

Oh, that's simple - just click on my name on the left, "add to buddy list" - then, once the screen switched to buddy list view, click it the menu item on the left again to see the ignore list as well.

 

Still - reading and understanding what I wrote might help you to get a better grasp at economics.

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citrus

citrus

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OK, guys,

 

I took the jump and got one of the last Leica M8 on amazon.com for the old price. Now there is one lest for sale (black).

 

On Monday we will see if Leica really follows through with the price increase or if I have been fooled by the marketing department of Leica.

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johnastovall

johnastovall

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OK, guys,

 

I took the jump and got one of the last Leica M8 on amazon.com for the old price. Now there is one lest for sale (black).

 

On Monday we will see if Leica really follows through with the price increase or if I have been fooled by the marketing department of Leica.

 

I think I was ahead of you there. ....

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Shootist

Shootist

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OK, guys,

 

I took the jump and got one of the last Leica M8 on amazon.com for the old price. Now there is one lest for sale (black).

 

On Monday we will see if Leica really follows through with the price increase or if I have been fooled by the marketing department of Leica.

 

You won't see a price increase on the retail end until the individual dealers run out of old stock.

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M6J

M6J

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Well done!

I did the same 2 weeks ago. Enjoy your brand new M8 ! :D

 

You won't see a price increase on the retail end until the individual dealers run out of old stock.

 

This is true. All the cameras that left Solms with the 1.107 firmware will be sold under the old price tag, so it could be long before all of them have gone. The new ones will have the 1.108 firmware and will sell under the new price tag. Both of them will be available for a while I guess...

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photolandscape

photolandscape

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You won't see a price increase on the retail end until the individual dealers run out of old stock.

 

Assuming this turns out to be the case, it would certainly be a refreshing change from the gouging oil companies and plenty of other commodity businesses tend to do.

 

Someone hiccups in the Middle East, and the price of oil and fuel immediately goes up and gets passed along to the consumer, weeks before oil coming out of the ground at that moment is consumed.

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Guest tummydoc

Guest tummydoc

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You won't see a price increase on the retail end until the individual dealers run out of old stock.

 

I think that may probably be true (I've learnt not to make absolute predictions, having wiped copious amount of egg from my face on many occasions :D ). But I don't believe it to be something the stockists are happy about. At the last price increase, several stockists immediately raised prices on current stock, whilst others did not. I do not know how many M8s were sold at the new price before all stockists had completed the raise. This time there is an additional issue at play: I suspect that a large number of customers who read the internet will refuse to pay the latest price jump unless the M8 they receive comes with firmware 1.108. So stockists may have their hands tied, and be forced to liquidate the 1.107 stock at least at the current price, or else wait until the next firmware is available, and upgrade all their stock so that consumers have no way to differentiate.

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martinb

martinb

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A Volvo assembler at Thorslanda can easily make 6 - 700.000 SEK per year. Also 100,000 dollars with the same tax bracket and public services, - even having partly dentist treatments included.

 

I think that's a bit too optimistic. First of all he wouldn't earn 6-700.000 SEK and if he would, he would probably pay about 50% in tax. We don't get free dentist treatments either, only up until we're 20. After the the price increase we're paying about 7500 USD's for a M8 in Sweden.

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Olsen

Olsen

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I think that's a bit too optimistic. First of all he wouldn't earn 6-700.000 SEK and if he would, he would probably pay about 50% in tax. We don't get free dentist treatments either, only up until we're 20. After the the price increase we're paying about 7500 USD's for a M8 in Sweden.

 

Martin,

 

I know for sure what the guys at Volvo Thorslanda can earn. - I forgot to mention that 5 weeks holiday is included! By law! What the tax bracket will be depends on their net income. The general tax level in Sweden is marginally higher than in Norway. Which means that a salary of, say, 6-700.000 SEK would carry a tax bracket of 'about' 40% depending on 'net income', after deductables. You must have a much higher salary, - even in Sweden, to pay 50% of your total income. (50% in more likely on the last kroner, but possibly higher.)

 

Compared to Norway you have a dentist coverage which is higher than in Norway and includes also (some) old people. Not so here in Norway.

 

I have both properties and income both in Sweden and Norway, and write a 'inkomstdeklaration/selvangivelse' to both countries so I can do a lot of direct comparisons.

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