Leica M(9?) body purchase advice to use Leica R lenses

[Shepherdphotographer]

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Hello everybody. I own a large number of Leica R lenses, which I now use on a Nikon D810 body: I had each of them replaced the bayonet, I use them with satisfaction and I am in love with the rendering, with Leica poetry. I would like to replace the D810 with a Leica digital camera body, but I am not very competent in this regard, I do not know the characteristics of Leica cameras, if not at a very superficial level and, consequently, which of them would be right for me. Once I bought the machine, I would have the bayonets replaced again in all my Leica R lenses, having the original Leica R bayonets reassembled and I would use them, obviously, using the adapter to the body you suggest. I exclude, first of all, with absolute firmness, an electronic viewfinder for my Leica camera (which I would buy used), because while I frame, as I compose the shot, I want to see "naturally", that is to continue seeing how the eye sees, not electronic colors. The camera should also give the possibility, if necessary, to shoot in black and white directly. I know that the M series bodies have a rangefinder: it would be no problem for me to use it, indeed it fascinates me a lot !! I have another requirement: I would like to always frame through the viewfinder and not through Live View, because I stubbornly think that the true Photography is the one with the optical viewfinder. Searching on the internet and trying to find out about it, I spotted the Leica M9, which I would buy used, so let's say that the available budget would be exactly what is needed to buy an M9. I ask you, please, to help me in the choice: if you think that the M9 is not ideal for me, please recommend another model. I have two questions, to begin with: 1) Could I also use focal lengths greater than 90mm? I have, for example, the Elmarit-R 135 / 2.8 and the Elmarit-R 180 / 2.8 v2: could I use them without problems with the rangefinder, or would I need to mount an additional viewfinder? Possibly the additional viewfinder from which focal up would you need? 2) I read on the internet that with an M body I would lose focus with the rangefinder: is this true to you? Would it be difficult, if so, to focus with R lenses? Thank you all in advance!

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[pegelli]

What you want is an M camera with M-rangefinder coupled lenses.

R-lenses with an R to M adapter don't have the rangefinder coupling for focussing and don't bring up the right framelines.

The only way to use R-lenses on an M-body is with live view or an EVF (both for focussing and framing), so the M9 is out, only M240 series cameras and later (M10.../M11...) have that.

Edited October 28, 2022 by pegelli

[John McMaster]

M8, M9  and Monochrom (CCD) are not suitable, you need a CMOS sensor for live view - so M(240) or later...

john

[hepcat]

If you want to use your R lenses with a digital Leica, you have the SL, SL2, or SL2-S as your choices.  That said, the R mount will adapt to just about any mirrorless body.  I use mine on a Panasonic Lumix S1, the immediate (and significantly less pricy) cousin of the SL2-S.

For rangefinder focusing with an M body, you need native M-mount lenses.

[pgk]

28 minutes ago, Shepherdphotographer said:

 I exclude, first of all, with absolute firmness, an electronic viewfinder for my Leica camera (which I would buy used), because while I frame, as I compose the shot, I want to see "naturally", that is to continue seeing how the eye sees, not electronic colors.

Searching on the internet and trying to find out about it, I spotted the Leica M9, which I would buy used, so let's say that the available budget would be exactly what is needed to buy an M9. I ask you, please, to help me in the choice: if you think that the M9 is not ideal for me, please recommend another model. 

Your two requirements are mutually incompatible. As the R lenses have no rangefinder coupling the only way to focus them on an M body is to use one which has an electronic viewfinder or the rear screen. So the simple answer is that nothing exists  which will do what you want.

[Anbaric]

36 minutes ago, Shepherdphotographer said:

Hello everybody. I own a large number of Leica R lenses, which I now use on a Nikon D810 body: I had each of them replaced the bayonet, I use them with satisfaction and I am in love with the rendering, with Leica poetry. I would like to replace the D810 with a Leica digital camera body, but I am not very competent in this regard, I do not know the characteristics of Leica cameras, if not at a very superficial level and, consequently, which of them would be right for me. Once I bought the machine, I would have the bayonets replaced again in all my Leica R lenses, having the original Leica R bayonets reassembled and I would use them, obviously, using the adapter to the body you suggest. I exclude, first of all, with absolute firmness, an electronic viewfinder for my Leica camera (which I would buy used), because while I frame, as I compose the shot, I want to see "naturally", that is to continue seeing how the eye sees, not electronic colors. The camera should also give the possibility, if necessary, to shoot in black and white directly. I know that the M series bodies have a rangefinder: it would be no problem for me to use it, indeed it fascinates me a lot !! I have another requirement: I would like to always frame through the viewfinder and not through Live View, because I stubbornly think that the true Photography is the one with the optical viewfinder. Searching on the internet and trying to find out about it, I spotted the Leica M9, which I would buy used, so let's say that the available budget would be exactly what is needed to buy an M9. I ask you, please, to help me in the choice: if you think that the M9 is not ideal for me, please recommend another model. I have two questions, to begin with: 1) Could I also use focal lengths greater than 90mm? I have, for example, the Elmarit-R 135 / 2.8 and the Elmarit-R 180 / 2.8 v2: could I use them without problems with the rangefinder, or would I need to mount an additional viewfinder? Possibly the additional viewfinder from which focal up would you need? 2) I read on the internet that with an M body I would lose focus with the rangefinder: is this true to you? Would it be difficult, if so, to focus with R lenses? Thank you all in advance!

For the reasons given above, the M9 would not be much use with your R lenses since you have no way to measure focus, and is in any case difficult to recommend without reservations even for M lenses. There was a common problem with corroding sensors, and you need to be absolutely sure when buying one that the sensor has (a) been replaced and (b) that the replacement was with the second version of the sensor, which has a cover glass that doesn't corrode. Replacements are no longer available.

The normal answer would be an SL series camera or other mirrorless, but unless you are prepared to give EVFs another chance (you may be pleasantly surprised), I'd stick with what you have, or perhaps look at upgrading to a D850 (though there's nothing wrong with the D810, especially for applications like yours where you'd see no benefit from improvements in AF, etc.). There are many great autofocus Nikon lenses that make full use of the camera, too - e.g., the 105 DC is pretty special (all the Nikon 105s are very good), the modern f/1.8 primes like the 28mm I have are excellent (competitive with my Summicron 35mm ASPH, and inexpensive by Leica standards), and you can't go wrong with any Nikon 50mm.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Anbaric

[a.noctilux]

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Strange thing this total (almost) incompatibility between Leica R and Leica M.

Only long Telyt lenses (400/560 optical cells) can be used with Leica R and Visoflex III (optical device to render M as SLR) that I use with M8/M9/other digital Ms.

 

I suffered with this incompatibility for long but now, my main Leica is M and for decades, it was R+M as two different uses.

 

To the OP,

My only advice is to forget the R lenses, and built from zero Leica M system with M lenses line, b&w only like Monochrom is unequaled.

It would be very expensive though.

...

just for fun,

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited October 28, 2022 by a.noctilux

[MattiasAndersson]

Not recommended but the R8 or R9 with DMR digital back would give you digital SLR for R lenses. But with crop factor and 15 year old tech…

Or sell some of your R lenses and buy a M240 and a M lens. Then use it to see if you like rangefinders.

For what type of photography ?

Edited October 28, 2022 by MattiasAndersson
DMR is from around 2005, not 1995…

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, pegelli said:

so the M9 is out, only M240 series cameras and later (M10.../M11...) have that.

Ah, ok, I didn't know it, thanks. I will choice one of them. Thank you very much!!

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, John McMaster said:

M8, M9  and Monochrom (CCD) are not suitable, you need a CMOS sensor for live view - so M(240) or later...

john

Thanks, John!

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, hepcat said:

If you want to use your R lenses with a digital Leica, you have the SL, SL2, or SL2-S as your choices.  That said, the R mount will adapt to just about any mirrorless body.  I use mine on a Panasonic Lumix S1, the immediate (and significantly less pricy) cousin of the SL2-S.

As premise, I don't want an electronic viewfinder.......

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, hepcat said:

For rangefinder focusing with an M body, you need native M-mount lenses.

M240, M10 or M11,as some forum users suggested earlier, then no?

 

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

Your two requirements are mutually incompatible. As the R lenses have no rangefinder coupling the only way to focus them on an M body is to use one which has an electronic viewfinder or the rear screen. So the simple answer is that nothing exists  which will do what you want.

M240, M10 or M11,as some forum users suggested earlier, then no?

 

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

For the reasons given above, the M9 would not be much use with your R lenses since you have no way to measure focus, and is in any case difficult to recommend without reservations even for M lenses. There was a common problem with corroding sensors, and you need to be absolutely sure when buying one that the sensor has (a) been replaced and (b) that the replacement was with the second version of the sensor, which has a cover glass that doesn't corrode. Replacements are no longer available.

Ok, no M9, it is clear! Thanks!

[darylgo]

There is a partial solution for you, perhaps not ideal but workable.  Leica makes a series of optical viewfinders from 18mm to 135mm, separate for each focal length.  If you purchase a Leica SL body, you can adapt your lenses as is with Nikon mount.  You will focus using live view and then you can compose with the optical finder.  There's a few downsides to this but it meets your requirements, the devil is in the details.  

Edited October 28, 2022 by darylgo

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

There are many great autofocus Nikon lenses that make full use of the camera, too - e.g., the 105 DC is pretty special (all the Nikon 105s are very good), the modern f/1.8 primes like the 28mm I have are excellent (competitive with my Summicron 35mm ASPH, and inexpensive by Leica standards), and you can't go wrong with any Nikon 50mm.

I have been shooting for 25 years, I know, from having tried them, as a true enthusiast and sick, 80% of Nikon lenses produced, both fixed and zoom, practically all AF, many AI and AI-s manuals: before they made up all my kit, replacing one another, then gradually they were joined by the Zeiss ZF / ZF.2, and then replaced by them: I have had and used all the Zeiss ZF / ZF.2, from the Distagon 21 / 2.8 to the APO -Sonnar 135/2: they have all been supplanted by the Leica R, because the Zeisses will also be very correct, very clear, but Leica is Poetry and the Zeisses don't even know what it is: completely different schools. So never anything different from Leica for the lenses !!

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

105 DC

It is a text of law compared to a Summilux-R 80 / 1.4 or a Summicron-R 90/2, or an Elmarit-R 90 / 2.8, which are, instead, poetry: I know the 105DC well, I also used the 135DC ......

 

[darylgo]

One more thing, those R lenses are beautiful.  Don't sell them, you'll regret it.  

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Hallo,

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[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

modern f/1.8 primes like the 28mm I have are excellent

Plastic, I don't care. Modern garbage. The only noteworthy 28mm nikon was the 28/2 AI. Also, I want to use manual focus lenses only (for several years!)

[Shepherdphotographer]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

Nikon 50mm.

Summilux-R 50/1.4 or Summicron-R 50/2, depending on the type of shot and the result I want to achieve, or my new, in my Billingham bag, Elmarit-R 60/2.8 macro, which I'll buy on Sunday