Iron Flatline Posted September 19, 2007 Share #21 Posted September 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) What I love about the R-D1 is the manually cocked shutter. If you want it quiet, you take the shot, and then you wait to cock the shutter when it is more opportune... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 19, 2007 Posted September 19, 2007 Hi Iron Flatline, Take a look here How LOUD is your M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest tummydoc Posted September 19, 2007 Share #22 Posted September 19, 2007 No contest, my D200 is louder than my M8. However thanks to AF I can shoot my D200 reliably at large aperture with a long-ish lens without putting it to my eye, so I can stay farther out of the subject's ear-shot plus not appear to be taking photos. Quite truthfully the noise of the M8 doesn't bother me. If Leica could divorce the shutter firing from the re-arming somehow, perhaps it would placate those who find it objectionable in its current form. If that isn't possible or forthcoming, I do wish Leica would say so, so that people who find the sound objectionable could sell their M8. Of course another alternative would be to whine about it whilst taking each shot, which I'm sure would drown-out the sound of the M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted September 19, 2007 Share #23 Posted September 19, 2007 I don't understand the comparison to SLR's!!!! Leica said this is a true Digital M, so it should be compared to Leica M Series cameras, of which it does not compare. It sounds like one of the very first auto advance compact film cameras of the 80's. As much as I love my M8, this is truely the worst aspect of the camera, and how Leica could release it like it is, is truely beyond my comprehension. They must have spent way too much time getting the digital sensor to work with lenses, or something...... .......luckily, the other advantages outweigh this major disadvantage........but still inexcusable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 20, 2007 Share #24 Posted September 20, 2007 I don't understand the comparison to SLR's!!!! Leica said this is a true Digital M, so it should be compared to Leica M Series cameras, of which it does not compare. It sounds like one of the very first auto advance compact film cameras of the 80's. As much as I love my M8, this is truely the worst aspect of the camera, and how Leica could release it like it is, is truely beyond my comprehension. They must have spent way too much time getting the digital sensor to work with lenses, or something...... .......luckily, the other advantages outweigh this major disadvantage........but still inexcusable! Well I guess it is compared to SLR's, & other types for that matter because it is used in many instances for the same thing. ie. taking of pictures, often discreetly. The subject, about which one is concerned, doesn't care what the camera is, only if it is noticed, often by it's sound. As far as my M8 is concerned it IS louder than any other camera I use for similar work. It is the single worst aspect of the camera. Pragmatically, I accept that and continue to use it far more frequently than any other of my 20+ cameras. It is the only camera that has caused someone to actually say to me "I heard that!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2007 Share #25 Posted September 20, 2007 Well I certainly know it fired let's put it that way. it could be quieter. i still want in the firmware in single mode a way to hold shutter down and it will not wind until i release. So i could always wind it under a coat or behind my back to buffer the sound. At least that option would be nice to have if the noise can't be made quieter which i doubt it can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 20, 2007 Share #26 Posted September 20, 2007 I think we'd be quite diasspointed by the option to delay wind-on. Put the camera on B and you can separate out the initial release from the wind-on and the release is hardly quiet. Thunk! The unfortunate thing is that mounting parts directly onto the body casting seems to amplify the noise in the same way a chiming clock sounds louder when standing on a shelf supported at each end. Take the motor/gearbox out and it runs very quietly; it would be interesting to mount the three (the shutter, motor/gearbox and shutter lock) on a sub-frame which is then isolated from the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share #27 Posted September 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think we'd be quite diasspointed by the option to delay wind-on. Put the camera on B and you can separate out the initial release from the wind-on and the release is hardly quiet. Thunk! (...) it would be interesting to mount the three (the shutter, motor/gearbox and shutter lock) on a sub-frame which is then isolated from the body. I think that's a good idea for the next generation: some kind of internal damping. I don't understand the comparison to SLR's!!!! Really I made that comparison because when I was first investigating the camera, through reviews etc, one of the things that almost all reviewers listed in their "rangefinders vs SLRs" breakdowns was that rangefinders are quieter (because there's no mirror to get out of the way). All other things would seem to be equal: an SLR must fire and re-cock its shutter just like the M8. So I was expecting a camera that, while not as quiet as a previous M, would beat the socks off my SLR. So that was a big, big shock. If Leica could divorce the shutter firing from the re-arming somehow, perhaps it would placate those who find it objectionable in its current form. If that isn't possible or forthcoming, I do wish Leica would say so, so that people who find the sound objectionable could sell their M8. Of course another alternative would be to whine about it whilst taking each shot, which I'm sure would drown-out the sound of the M8 No, no, no, Vinay; you miss a crucial point here. Whining is high-pitched. You could drown out an SLR with whining, maybe. But for the almost subsonic THUNK of the M8, I think only some serious grumbling would do the trick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspectics Posted September 20, 2007 Share #28 Posted September 20, 2007 My personal impression about M8 shutter sound is this: 1.) People turn around when they hear it. Its loud, yes. But they are usually intrigued by what kind of mechanical sound that was, rather than annoyed. 2.) The sound is a treat to my ears, as much as Leica bokeh pleases my eyes. 3.) I'm addicted to the sound, can't hear it enough Why do you still need a physical shutter with an electronic sensor? Shouldn't it be possible to just have the sensor switch on for the duration of the exposure? Or, just have it be on all the time and only record what it "sees" for the duration of the exposure? I'm guessing something similar to the latter is happening anyway. from Gesper No answer to this, yet. I find this question very interesting - could anyone shed light on why this isn't done anywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafasoleiman Posted September 20, 2007 Share #29 Posted September 20, 2007 what did you say?.... I was taking a picture, sorry... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolm.mcintyre Posted September 20, 2007 Share #30 Posted September 20, 2007 How loud? Too loud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted September 20, 2007 Share #31 Posted September 20, 2007 No, no, no, Vinay; you miss a crucial point here. Whining is high-pitched. You could drown out an SLR with whining, maybe. But for the almost subsonic THUNK of the M8, I think only some serious grumbling would do the trick. LOL! Yes I see your point. I also wonder how many people on the internet who grumble incessantly about the M8 noise have actually heard one, leave alone owning it. I can imagine convincing myself the noise is the reason why I won't buy one versus admit to financial reasons, but I can't imagine keeping a $5000 piece of kit if it truly interfered with my ability to capture the kind of shots I like, particularly when it could be sold at very little loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2007 Share #32 Posted September 20, 2007 Well we have to remember your ear is 6 inches from the camera and if you stand 6ft away from it you can hear it a lot less. i have yet to have a issue when shooting this in quiet places. Actually my last client in Florida i shot about 2 k in images for 4 days in meetings and such with a quiet crowd and my client remarked to me i barely knew you were in the room. I take that as a compliment on myself and my gear . If you look noisey well than you may be heard as noisy too. it all relates and yes the M8 has some noise to it no question but not as bad as what we read sometimes in reality when the person it may offend is feet and meters away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 20, 2007 Share #33 Posted September 20, 2007 Digilux2, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 20, 2007 Share #34 Posted September 20, 2007 Yes, the D2 is very quiet, but the click you hear is AFTER the image has been captured as the sensor is covered to read out the image. It all adds up to the D2 feeling a bit unresponsive. But it is quiet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 20, 2007 Share #35 Posted September 20, 2007 I think we'd be quite diasspointed by the option to delay wind-on. Put the camera on B and you can separate out the initial release from the wind-on and the release is hardly quiet. Thunk! (That's not quite the same thing, since when you *release* the button, the shutter closes...) The desired thing is to leave out the winding. The clack is still too loud, but the option to do the winding separately (or not at all) would be very welcome. Anyway, I am not particularly keen on holding the button down to wind later. I think this calls for a multi-pronged strategy in the M9, with a manual lever as well as a suspended shutter mechanism. I cannot imagine that anything would could be done to the M8 will really make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share #36 Posted September 21, 2007 I think this calls for a multi-pronged strategy in the M9, with a manual lever as well as a suspended shutter mechanism. I cannot imagine that anything would could be done to the M8 will really make a difference. Despite having started the gripe in the first place, I'd be reluctant to see a putative M9 incorporate a wind-on lever in place of automatic cocking. (If it was an alternative, selectable from a menu or a hardware switch, then okay, I guess.) My vote would be to keep the automated cocking, but work on silencing it. One thing to consider is that there are several SLRs out there which are either as loud or quieter than the M8, but which also manage to fire and re-cock their shutters 8 or more times a second (with that flapping mirror, too). I don't miss that frame rate on the M8, but it suggests that within a 2fps mechanism there should be the mechanical opportunity to gear the thing towards silence. Something like a hypersonic motor driving a low gearing ratio? I'm spitballing here, but it feels like it ought to be do-able for a company with as much mechanical experience as Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 21, 2007 Share #37 Posted September 21, 2007 (That's not quite the same thing, since when you *release* the button, the shutter closes...) The desired thing is to leave out the winding. The clack is still too loud, but the option to do the winding separately (or not at all) would be very welcome. Anyway, I am not particularly keen on holding the button down to wind later. I think this calls for a multi-pronged strategy in the M9, with a manual lever as well as a suspended shutter mechanism. I cannot imagine that anything would could be done to the M8 will really make a difference. Carsten, the point that I was trying to make was that the initial release we have on "B" now would not change, irrespective of what happens when it closes and I would say even that initial release is too loud, so an option to delay wind-on is not going to help. It's a noisy beast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted September 21, 2007 Share #38 Posted September 21, 2007 Mark, I do agree on your observation. Hope the Digital M (M8-2, M9, ...) will improve this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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