Summicron 90mm SL vs. Sigma 85 DG DN

[Almizilero]

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Sorry if this is a double post, but I couldn't find any dedicated thread for the SL version of the Leica Summicron 90/2 lens. If I was just blind please send me in the right direction.

Anyways, overall, there seems to be very little information on this lens, I could find only a few reviews on photography webpages or youtube. Overall, everybody seems to agree that it's a great lens. I'd love to see some more sample images from real world users. Also, if you found some reviews that you enjoyed please post links here!
And of course, it would be very interesting to see how the Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN compares to the Leica.

Thanks!
Roland

[Jeff S]

 

 

 

 

 

There are more, but these should give you a start.

Jeff

[Almizilero]

Thanks! I see where my problem was. I searched titles for 90mm, but I only went back a couple of pages and didn't reach posts from 2018/2020. Sorry

I can offer a link to a comparison with the 85 DG DN: https://findingrange.com/2021/03/03/sigma-85mm-f1-4-vs-leica-apo-summicron-sl-90-asph/

Edited September 6, 2022 by Almizilero

[Jeff S]

There are also many discussions regarding the Sigma options…

 

 

Jeff

Edited September 6, 2022 by Jeff S

[Almizilero]

I have the Sigma and think it's a great lens. But since the 85/90mm range is what I use most, I might just spend the money and get the real deal. I'll read through the threads you posted and have a look at the images.
Comparisons with the Sigma seem rare and for some reason they only compare them wide open. I'd find it interesting how they compare with the Sigma at F/2 as well. At some point, I'll probably have to rent the Summicron to see how it looks against the Sigma in my usecases.

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

At some point, I'll probably have to rent the Summicron to see how it looks against the Sigma in my usecases.

This. The only way to effectively assess IMO is to try… demo, rent, etc… using your own shooting, editing and viewing/print workflow.  Online discussions don’t affect my own judgment and purchase decisions… far too many variables, most of which are affected by user actions and tastes.

Jeff

[hofo100]

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This link leads you to search results of my posts in the SL2 thread with the Summicron 90SL. I really do not want to miss this one and its companion, the Summicron 50SL. If ever the long-time ago announced 21 or 24 Summicron will become available, I am quite sure that one of those will join the family...

[Almizilero]

OK, here we go, got a 90mm Summicron from a local and did some test shots with it and the Sigma 85 DG DN. Both are incredible lenses, but I think I can see the differences. But do I only see them because I know which is which?

I'll post a couple of pairs without EXIF datat. These are just test shots, so no great effort went into posing and of course there is no editing involved. All were shot at F/2 with both lenses. If you're interested, I'll post a comparison of Summicron v. Sigma@1.4 later. Please let me know which of the pairs you prefer (they are mixed, so it's not always first is Leica, second is Sigma or something).

1A

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1B

 

2A

 

2B

Edited September 7, 2022 by Almizilero

[Almizilero]

Some more:

3A

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3B

 

4A

 

4B

Edited September 7, 2022 by Almizilero

[Photoworks]

1b, 2a, 3a, 4b

they are so close that for the price sigma is the winner

[Stuart Richardson]

I take 1B, 2A, 3A, 4A. I think those might be the summicron, but only because they seem to have a bit less vignetting and in the last two the bokeh fringing seems very slightly lower in 4A. That said, it has slightly smoother bokeh, which suggests Sigma to me, as the APO summicrons tend to have slightly harsher bokeh due to their high level of correction. That said, I have no real confidence that I am correct. I think comparing at web sizes is unlikely to show the differences in most shots, unless there are obvious differences in bokeh fringing, vignetting and so on. Typically the biggest difference with the apo summicrons are seen in extreme situations, like shooting wide open at night or in landscapes etc. In those photos the extreme resolution shows its advantage. One thing to keep in mind with the lenses is that they were also designed to support ever higher resolution cameras. So we are at 47mp today, but before long we are likely to see 60-80mp or more in 35mm full frame cameras. This is not a knock on Sigma. They are right up there. Only that what is a subtle difference today (especially in 24mp cameras) may not be so subtle in the future. That is certainly my experience in comparing the SL APO summicrons to even the S lenses, for example.

[wizard]

I'd say 1B, 2B, 3A and 4B are the Summicron shots, but it is a close call indeed. I am pretty sure about 4B though. Let's see!

[huwm]

1a2a3b4a are my preference and probably a mix? 
Either of these lenses is more than decent 

 

 

[Almizilero]

Alright, I guess it's time to clear things up. I actually had to look it up myself, which speaks for how close these two are. While I think I can see the Leica 3D-effect (and like it a lot), the difference is mostly in the bokeh, which is smoother with the Sigma lens. Also, in 100% view, the Leica images are sharper and more contrasty (is this even a word? :D) The eyes have a little more shine to them. But you really have to zoom in to see this. Also, even with both at F/2, the Sigma seems to have a smaller area of sharpness.

So, here goes:
1) A - Leica, B - Sigma
2) A - Sigma, B - Leica
3) A - Sigma, B - Leica
4) A - Leica, B - Sigma

I think we have a mix of people guessing which one is the Leica/Sigma and people stating which version they find more appealing. Overall, we have quite the win for the Sigma with one full set, a couple of 3 to 1 in favour of the Sigma and one 3 to 1 for the Leica.

[wizard]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb Almizilero:

the difference is mostly in the bokeh, which is smoother with the Sigma lens

Which is what has misled me. From watching other image samples taken with Leica's SL series lenses, what really suprised me was the very smooth bokeh of those lenses. So I judged your samples mostly based on bokeh, and therefore was wrong in 3 out of 4 cases. Interesting to know that the Sigma lens actually has the smoother bokeh. Still, the results are very, very close, which of course says a lot about how good the Sigma lens is.

Edited September 9, 2022 by wizard

[insomnia]

Also, let's not forget the Sigma can open up another stop and is smaller and lighter.

Leica took the easy route and built enormously large lenses with a certain performance, but that's not a miracle, everyone can do that nowadays (and they're doing it). I would have hoped they would apply their knowledge from the M series and built them compact. 

[wizard]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb insomnia:

I would have hoped they would apply their knowledge from the M series and built them compact. 

M series is manual focus, SL lenses are all AF. No way you can build an AF lens as compact as a manual focus lens, assuming same focal length and f-stop, of course. There were other reasons, too, which drove Leica to design their SL lenses much bigger (telecentric optical construction, same body components where possible, etc.). The SL lenses are likely still better optically than lenses from other manufacturers, but this may only become apparent with 100MP sensors.

[Almizilero]

I must say I was surprised how small the 90mm is. After reading a lot about the massive Leica lenses, this one seems very reasonable. It's not that much longer than the Sigma and less bulky. The weight is more or less the same as well. But yes, Sigma builds a 1.4 at this size and the extra stop is highly appreciated! As are the buttons and aperture ring. The Leica is an absolute beauty, but the no frills approach has it's downsides. I got to like the aperture ring quite a lot.

[insomnia]

I've never said anything about being as compact as the M lenses. But you've sure read my comment that the Sigma is smaller, lighter and opens up a stop further. Also it's the sharpest ultrafast 85 on the market (so not including the 90 SL), corner to corner. Even if that advantage were true, I doubt 100 MP will be relevant for consumers.

Edited September 9, 2022 by insomnia

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[huwm]

Despite being the 3 to 1 in favour of Leica I’ll stop at one SL prime, the 50mm, for now 😁 

90mm just not for me, if I needed a portrait lens I think I’d just use my Sigma 105

35mm, well maybe, but my little Sigma f2 is really nice 👌 and I would expect the f1.4 to be as close as this contest