Huss Posted September 4, 2022 Share #1 Posted September 4, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 Hi Huss, Take a look here Leica film Ms are made in Wetzlar. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Matlock Posted September 4, 2022 Share #2 Posted September 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Huss said: Interesting but the cameras shown in the video haven't been made for a number of years. When was this film made? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted September 4, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted September 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Matlock said: Interesting but the cameras shown in the video haven't been made for a number of years. When was this film made? No idea. But you can see an M7 and MP being made. The M7 was discontinued in 2018. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 4, 2022 Share #4 Posted September 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Huss said: No idea. But you can see an M7 and MP being made. The M7 was discontinued in 2018. The M7, MP and R9 were all introduced in 2002 and I suspect this video is from about then. All Leica Film Ms (and most other Ms) are made in Portugal now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 4, 2022 Share #5 Posted September 4, 2022 I think this may have been discussed one or two times before…. If only the forum had some sort of search feature. 🤔 http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf (this document should be pinned or at least every M owner or potential owner should be made to read it before getting their camera) Quote Leica Portugal is where most of the work begins on Leica M and Leica S cameras: crafting raw blocks of aluminum with the latest CNC equipment into camera bodies, meticulously hand polishing the surfaces un- til they are silky smooth, and inspecting the work every step of the way. Oh, and to reply to what the other participant wrote in yet another thread… Quote Labor costs in Portugal are among the lowest in Western Europe I believe to be able to stamp “Made in Germany” on the bodies, what they call final assembly is done at the factory in Germany. I’m guessing that means putting on the bottom plate, fixing to top plate, an inspection, good clean up and generally made ready for an unboxing video. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted September 4, 2022 Share #6 Posted September 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, ianman said: I believe to be able to stamp “Made in Germany” on the bodies, what they call final assembly is done at the factory in Germany.. According to this site, German courts have ruled that products with this label must at least be assembled in Germany. And more than half of the parts used should also come from Germany. I'm quite sure that Leica follows the rules required to use the 'Made in Germany' stamp, so at least half the parts in M cameras must be made in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 4, 2022 Share #7 Posted September 4, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, logan2z said: According to this site, German courts have ruled that products with this label must at least be assembled in Germany. And more than half of the parts used should also come from Germany. I'm quite sure that Leica follows the rules required to use the 'Made in Germany' stamp, so at least half the parts in M cameras must be made in Germany. That doesn't explain how some Leica lenses are made in Portugal yet are labelled Made in Germany. Some were re labelled Made in Portugal to get round the Trump restrictions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 4, 2022 Share #8 Posted September 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, logan2z said: According to this site, German courts have ruled that products with this label must at least be assembled in Germany. And more than half of the parts used should also come from Germany. I'm quite sure that Leica follows the rules required to use the 'Made in Germany' stamp, so at least half the parts in M cameras must be made in Germany. That may be so. The article was written in 2017 IIRC, this court decision may have been made later. But tbh, I personally couldn’t care less where my camera was built. It’s solid, works perfectly and suits me fine. The rest is totally irrelevant. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted September 4, 2022 Share #9 Posted September 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Matlock said: That doesn't explain how some Leica lenses are made in Portugal yet are labelled Made in Germany. Some were re labelled Made in Portugal to get round the Trump restrictions. If Leica is following the rules laid out by the German courts for using the 'Made in Germany' label (and I have to assume that they are or they'd run afoul of the German courts), then at least half the parts used in Leica lenses so branded must be made in Germany - regardless of which factory or factories are involved in the lens's manufacture. Re: 'Made in Portugal' on lenses, I have no idea what the rules are for using such branding - if there are any. But, again, I have to assume that Leica followed the rules when using the branding on their lenses in order to get around the Trump-era tariffs on German lenses. So it's quite possible that the lenses satisfied the requirements of both the 'Made in Portugal' and 'Made in Germany' labels and some were simply branded 'Made in Portugal' to avoid the US tariffs. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 4, 2022 Share #10 Posted September 4, 2022 18 minutes ago, Matlock said: That doesn't explain how some Leica lenses are made in Portugal yet are labelled Made in Germany. Some were re labelled Made in Portugal to get round the Trump restrictions. If Leica choose to sell them as Made in Germany, the lenses will be assembled in Germany to comply with the legislation. If Leica want to get around trade restrictions in the US, then they can just complete the lenses in Portugal, and label them as such. Same lens, same quality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted September 4, 2022 Share #11 Posted September 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, ianman said: That may be so. The article was written in 2017 IIRC, this court decision may have been made later. But tbh, I personally couldn’t care less where my camera was built. It’s solid, works perfectly and suits me fine. The rest is totally irrelevant. +1 I don't care where the bits of my cameras and lenses are actually manufactured, assembled, boxed, etc. The ones I own look great, feel great , work great and put a smile on my face every time I use them. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Stewart Posted September 4, 2022 Share #12 Posted September 4, 2022 My M7 has a light leak Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/336303-leica-film-ms-are-made-in-wetzlar/?do=findComment&comment=4503008'>More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 4, 2022 Share #13 Posted September 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, andybarton said: If Leica choose to sell them as Made in Germany, the lenses will be assembled in Germany to comply with the legislation. If Leica want to get around trade restrictions in the US, then they can just complete the lenses in Portugal, and label them as such. Same lens, same quality That may be so Andy but it doesn't explain how most M cameras are now made in Portugal but labelled "Made in Germany". As has been stated before, the "Made in ....." usually only applies to final inspection and boxing in most EU countries (and elsewhere). Most French companies get round any ambiguity by simply labelling products "France". It's a fascinating subject but doesn't really have any bearing on the quality of Leica products thankfully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Stewart Posted September 4, 2022 Share #14 Posted September 4, 2022 Here is its replacement: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/336303-leica-film-ms-are-made-in-wetzlar/?do=findComment&comment=4503011'>More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 4, 2022 Share #15 Posted September 4, 2022 35 minutes ago, Matlock said: That may be so Andy but it doesn't explain how most M cameras are now made in Portugal but labelled "Made in Germany". They are not made 100% in Portugal. Take a factory visit and they will explain everything. Sub-assemblies come from Portugal and are put together in Wetzlar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 4, 2022 Share #16 Posted September 4, 2022 18 minutes ago, andybarton said: They are not made 100% in Portugal. Take a factory visit and they will explain everything. Sub-assemblies come from Portugal and are put together in Wetzlar. Thanks Andy, however the article in Film & Digital Times would seem to indicate otherwise and shows cameras complete except for top and bottom plates (I can accept that final assembly in Germany would cover that but that is pushing the term sub-assemblies a bit far 🙂 ) however it also shows complete lenses and that cannot be explained. Interesting. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 4, 2022 Share #17 Posted September 4, 2022 25 minutes ago, andybarton said: They are not made 100% in Portugal. Take a factory visit and they will explain everything. Sub-assemblies come from Portugal and are put together in Wetzlar. I did the tour some years ago (2010 IIRC). At that time the technicians were attaching the top and bottom plates and preparing them for shipment. Perhaps more was being done beyond what they showed visitors. Production of lenses was however much more involved with the grinding machines working away, full hand assembly and rigorous testing of the lenses by the technicians. I think I remember them saying that the metal parts were manufactured at the Porto plant. Of course, since then they may have changed things, the article mentions an enlargement of the Porto factory in 2013. And the factory in Germany has been moved since I went to Solms. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted September 4, 2022 Share #18 Posted September 4, 2022 See post 4 in the thread above, Pecole. Marketing, sales, fake info.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bixxi Posted September 4, 2022 Share #19 Posted September 4, 2022 vor 3 Stunden schrieb James Stewart: Here is its replacement: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The new M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted September 4, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted September 4, 2022 4 hours ago, Bixxi said: The new M? The top plate says MP, but it has an angled crank, on off switch etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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