Overexposed images with M10M

[Bobby]

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I'd be interested to get an M10M. Most images I've seen have got some kind of blown out highlights. Is it something we have to live with, or it's just that we should keep the exposure down by two stops?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bobby

[jaapv]

Neither. You should expose for the subject. The camera can only advise, the exposure is set by the photographer. 

[Bobby]

@jaapv yes but nobody seems to avoid blown out highlights in most cases

[jaapv]

It depends whether you want certain highlights blown. You should not blame the camera for poor photographers' technique. Any monochrome camera cannot recover highlights like a Bayer sensored one does.

[egrossman]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Neither. You should expose for the subject. The camera can only advise, the exposure is set by the photographer. 

I disagree. You should underexpose up to a stop or so. There is plenty of headroom (up to 4 stops) to recover shadow detail and you this way you protect your highlights from getting blown out. If you think expose for the subject and get it wrong, there is no way to recover blown highlights.

Erik

[jaapv]

No. You should expose for the highlights that you want detail in. Each image is different. Setting a blanket underexposure is a senseless reduction of dynamic range.  Treat like slide film.

[Bobby]

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I agree with both of you, but from the images it appears to be difficult to have no blown out highlights. With a color sensor, I rarely have that problem if at all. 

[Gobert]

As M10M owner, I have to agree with Jaap. There is only one correct exposure and that’s up to the photographer. Blown out parts cannot be corrected. That’s inherent to a monochrom sensor.

Having said so, many M10M owners -including me- will underexpose somewhat to be on the safe side. How much? It depends on the circumstances and -again- on the skills of the photographer.

[jaapv]

Some images will need overexposure. The only way to know for sure is to use the histogram, which must be as full a curve as possible, without peak against the righthand side (or at least know what the peak is) and not bunched up against the lefthand side. Obviously one can do so real-time on an EVF, but with an optical viewfinder only on review, calling for skill. 

[egrossman]

8 minutes ago, Gobert said:

As M10M owner, I have to agree with Jaap. There is only one correct exposure and that’s up to the photographer. Blown out parts cannot be corrected. That’s inherent to a monochrom sensor.

Having said so, many M10M owners -including me- will underexpose somewhat to be on the safe side. How much? It depends on the circumstances and -again- on the skills of the photographer.

You kind of are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you are agreeing with Jaap but on the other, in practice, you do what I recommended.

Erik

[jaapv]

12 minutes ago, Bobby said:

I agree with both of you, but from the images it appears to be difficult to have no blown out highlights. With a color sensor, I rarely have that problem if at all. 

A colour sensor will use the remaining colour channel(s) to extrapolate the lost highlight detail from the blown (1 or 2) channel(s). That is not possible with a monochrome sensor. 

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

calling for skill. 

Or for the easy but inferior fix of under-exposing.

[egrossman]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

A colour sensor will use the remaining colour channel(s) to extrapolate the lost highlight detail from the blown (1 or 2) channel(s). That is not possible with a monochrome sensor. 

Exactly why it's better to underexpose at least a little on the M10M given that it only captures a single channel (Luminance) to give a buffer to recover. If it's blown it's blown. Given the 4 stop headroom to recover shadow detail on the M10M, why not underexpose at least a little? I see no downside (no banding, no major grain amplification, etc).

Erik

Edited July 24, 2022 by egrossman

[jaapv]

Maybe a sense of perfectionism? When I see the trouble you go to to optimize the viewing of your images, I would have expected a similar approach to getting the maximum into the original file. 

[Bobby]

Appreciate it depends on the subject, but, on average, how much do you under expose? To me it looks like it has to be more than one stop. 

[egrossman]

Perfectionism? I'd rather the safety of knowing that I didn't lose a captured image because of blown highlights than the arrogance of assuming that I'll get it right every time. But that's just me.

Erik

[egrossman]

2 minutes ago, Bobby said:

Appreciate it depends on the subject, but, on average, how much do you under expose? To me it looks like it has to be more than one stop. 

For me? Typically 2/3 - 1 stop. I find that to be enough.

Erik

[jaapv]

I doubt that there is an average image. in general, a high-contrast one will call for a reduction in exposure between ⅔ rds of a stop to -3 in extreme cases, depending on the highlight areas you want to preserve, whilst a low-contrast image can sometimes take a +2 exposure. For instance a landscape with light cloud cover will demand no compensation at all - as long as you don't point the camera at a black object in the shadow or at sky. 

[jaapv]

Please note that the focal length you use is important too. A wideangle or even more a super-wideangle lens is more prone to pick up highlights that will fool the camera into metering under-exposure than a standard or moderate tele will.

A good example is photographing a sunset. You don't mind the sun being blown, so you don't meter off the sun, nor do you compensate for it. You measure off the sky next to the sun for perfect exposure. For that you must know the metering pattern you are using. In this case spot. A portrait is fine with the standard centre-weighed - and never mind that the bright reflected dots in the eyes are blown. Like many specular highlights, it does not matter at all. (but avoid the nasty white blobs on the forehead and cheeks)

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[Bobby]

For me it'd be mostly street at 35/50mm. I'm just trying to figure out if I can avoid overexposure at all, but it seems too much to ask to a monochrom sensor. 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bobby