Tad hard to get lenses to infinity, maybe pushes M6 rangefinder cam too far

[Varaga]

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Hello everyone. So I have an M6 and 4 lenses (Summarit 50 1,5, 90 Summicron pre-asph, Voigtlander 50 1,2 and Voigtlander 35 1.4 II) and all of my lenses seem to have a bit of trouble reaching the infinity (I am talking about the rangefinder patch, but the lens itself). It seems that the rangefinder cam inside the camera starts to fight back at the very end. The lenses get to the infinity but they need juust a bit more force rotating the focus to get there. The rangefinder is fine and the photos are all in focus, I tested multiple times with multiple film rolls with a calibration chart. (If I adjust the rangefinder just a little bit this issue goes away but my lenses start to back-focus around 1.5cm).

So as this is my only Leica and I never handled another, I just want to know if it's a common thing and nothing to worry about or something needs to be done with the rangefinder cam?

Thanks in advance!

Edited July 12, 2022 by Varaga

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[spydrxx]

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. The next time you have a need to have your camera serviced by a Leica professional, I'd mention it and they could do a calibration touch up on the cam and rf patch so everything is copacetic.

[250swb]

The rangefinder cam is on a very light spring and the pressure should not increase but remain linear as the lens is focused to infinity. It sounds like something is out of adjustment but I wonder if the lenses have been previously adjusted to match the camera, or the camera adjusted to match the lenses, either way is the wrong way. The lenses should be adjusted to their own set tolerances, and likewise the camera adjusted to its own tolerances.

[Varaga]

Thank you for your responses. It seems that the rangefinder coupling of the lens is pushing the rangefinder cam inside the camera maybe just a little too far into the camera. When I rotate the lens to infinity (all 4 lenses), I feel that at the last maybe 0.5mm, it becomes tighter. And when I do make the lens reach infinity, going back feels a little sticky. Feels like the metals of the coupling inside the lens and the rangefinder cam pushed each other.

I calibrated the camera to my 2 main lenses (Voigtlander 50 1.2 and Summicron 90). Both had the same amount of back focus and after tweaking a little bit the pictures are perfectly in focus, at least in 1m distance.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Varaga said:

I calibrated the camera to my 2 main lenses (Voigtlander 50 1.2 and Summicron 90). Both had the same amount of back focus and after tweaking a little bit the pictures are perfectly in focus, at least in 1m distance.

I guess you read something on the internet by somebody who wasn't a technician and now you are paying for it. Never ever calibrate a camera to a lens, it should be common sense.

I don't see a way to backtrack now you've done it other than send your camera and lenses to Leica or a proficient technician and have them individually calibrated. You should also consider that lenses like the Voigtlander may have some inherent aperture related focus shift, so if you force the camera to overcome it you can be taking the mechanism to extremes and make all your other lenses even worse to focus. In essence you start going around in circles from which you never recover, unless you do it right in the first place.

Edited July 12, 2022 by 250swb

[Varaga]

Thank you for your response. Not only Voigtlander lenses, but also the Summicron had the exact same amount of back focusing and no noticeable focus shift is present in any of my lenses, I tried them from f1.2 to f4. The camera's rangefinder was off, now it isn't. I understand that you should not calibrate a camera to ONE lens, but if all the lenses show the exact same amount of shift on my camera, then you can count the lenses as correct and the camera wrong. I hope you'd agree that it is highly unlikely that those 3 lenses that behave the exact same way are off from the standard.

[Varaga]

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The main part that I am trying to say is that right now, all my 4 lenses focus correctly at least in MFD and 2 meters, I tested those distances very thoroughly and shot each lens from the max aperture to f4 using a tripod and a calibration chart (The Summarit of course is correct at f2.8, it has an inherent focus shift as I am sure most of you know). The issue is that whenever I am focusing my lenses to infinity, it seems that the lens cam is pushing the rangefinder cam a little too far inside. I am thinking that maybe the arm length of the rangefinder cam is off just a little bit.

[spydrxx]

If it is really bothering you, take your body to a qualified Leica repairperson, pay the fee, and get it adjusted and calibrated to your satisfaction!

[pippy]

8 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

If it is really bothering you, take your body to a qualified Leica repairperson, pay the fee, and get it adjusted and calibrated to your satisfaction!

This.

"The issue is that whenever I am focusing my lenses to infinity, it seems that the lens cam is pushing the rangefinder cam a little too far inside. I am thinking that maybe the arm length of the rangefinder cam is off just a little bit."

You seem to understand where the problem lies. No one here can help you if your camera/lenses are out. Take them to a Pro. Rrealistically you don't have any other option.

Good luck.

Philip.

[Varaga]

Thank you everyone. The main reason that I decided to ask was to see if other people experienced similar thing as I never handled other Leica or know anybody that I can ask for. Of course sending to a pro is the best choice, did not hurt to ask a forum dedicated to only Leica users and repairmen. Cheers.

[Varaga]

51 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

If it is really bothering you, take your body to a qualified Leica repairperson, pay the fee, and get it adjusted and calibrated to your satisfaction!

Thank you for the helpful feedback.

[Vlad Soare]

Remove the lens, look through the viewfinder at a distant object, then press the rangefinder cam gently with your finger until the images overlap. That's when the rangefinder is "focused" (for lack of a better word) at infinity. The cam should move very smoothly all the way to that point. Do you feel any increase in resistance, any harshness at all? If you do, then you should have the rangefinder inspected by a technician.
If you don't, then the camera is fine, and it's the lenses that may need to be checked.

What's certain is that this is NOT normal behaviour for a Leica. It should be as smooth as silk over the entire focusing range. There is clearly an issue with yours, though whether it's serious or not I don't know.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Vlad Soare

[Capuccino-Muffin]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:15 PM, 250swb said:

I guess you read something on the internet by somebody who wasn't a technician and now you are paying for it. Never ever calibrate a camera to a lens, it should be common sense.

I don't see a way to backtrack now you've done it other than send your camera and lenses to Leica or a proficient technician and have them individually calibrated. You should also consider that lenses like the Voigtlander may have some inherent aperture related focus shift, so if you force the camera to overcome it you can be taking the mechanism to extremes and make all your other lenses even worse to focus. In essence you start going around in circles from which you never recover, unless you do it right in the first place.

There was a time, on this very forum, when people were doing just that: calibrating cameras to specific lenses. I can’t believe any true technician would do this.
 

 

[250swb]

3 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

There was a time, on this very forum, when people were doing just that: calibrating cameras to specific lenses. I can’t believe any true technician would do this.
 

 

People do DIY because of expediency, it gets some people a result, but those people then often spread their result as success despite having no technical understanding of the consequences. There is an all encompassing phrase that is the curse in quick fix aspects of photography, it is 'it has never happened to me'. And I'm all for a bit of DIY but sometimes there is more depth to the understanding of an adjustment that the manual doesn't describe.