Q2M Cropping and shutter speed

[jaapv]

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We all have our preference. But it helps to have the underlying principles clear. 

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[clasami]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

We all have our preference. But it helps to have the underlying principles clear. 

Couldn't agree more.

Now, I know you are not into Auto settings, but don't you also think that not adjusting shutter speed to the FOV in crop mode is an omission bei Leica that should be fixed in a firmware update? If, however, it is not an oversight, I would love to hear the reason from Leica why they haven't implemented it.

Also, I do support those who ask for an update in firmware to offer the option to enlarge the crop area to fill the EVF. But as an option, since I do also value the ranger finder style benfit of seeing what moves into the frame in crop mode.

Good light! 

[Le Chef]

Why not just crop in post rather than all this faffing about in camera?

[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Why not just crop in post rather than all this faffing about in camera?

As written earlier in the thread ............. because shooting in crop changes how the Q2 meters and manages AF. 

[clasami]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Le Chef:

Why not just crop in post rather than all this faffing about in camera?

Couple of reasons: It helps me frame better, it mesasures light and AF within the crop frame. What I use often is 35mm and 50mm. And I do like the range finder style "preview" of what's happening outside the frame. But of course, I also crop in post just as much, and also often change the crop hat I selected in camera to something else. The good thing is that the RAW stays unchanged (unlike on my Sony).

[jaapv]

Well, maybe you have hit on the answer: Leica (correctly) regards it as cropping, Sony as (incorrectly) focal length change. For focal length change you change the shutter speed, for cropping normally not. 

[clasami]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Well, maybe you have hit on the answer: Leica (correctly) regards it as cropping, Sony as (incorrectly) focal length change. For focal length change you change the shutter speed, for cropping normally not. 

Not according to this articel: https://fstoppers.com/education/understanding-relationship-between-resolution-details-and-shutter-speed-489033

Cropping chages the FoV (which results in an equivalent focal lenght) which needs to be reflected in the 1/FL formula by adding the crop factor. At least this is how I understand the article. 

[jaapv]

Yes, that is correct, but nobody I know considers shutter speed when cropping (however misguided that may be  ) I don't believe in the 1/f formula anyway; it is too linked to the person of the photographer. I have steady hands, trained professionally and can handhold a 50 mm lens down to ¼ second, with luck  and wasted shots even longer, others will struggle at 1/125.

[clasami]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Yes, that is correct, but nobody I know considers shutter speed when cropping (however misguided that may be  ) I don't believe in the 1/f formula anyway; it is too linked to the person of the photographer. I have steady hands, trained professionally and can handhold a 50 mm lens down to ¼ second, with luck  and wasted shots even longer, others will struggle at 1/125.

Well, as always, a rule of thumb is a rule of thumb to make things easier. Like "Sonne lacht, Blende acht" (Sun out, f8) which my father tought me when he gave his Pentagon camera to me. Average steady hands, 1/FL does a good job. Up to 24MP sensors anway. 1/2FL is on the safe side (and seems what Leica uses in P mode). To be honest, I never considered to apply the crop factor before I read the article. But I did notice lack of sharpness from time to time wich I couldn't explain. Since I have started adding the crop factor, a lot more of my Fuji images have very good sharpness (most of my Fuji lenses don't have OIS, and the cameras don't have IS).

[LocalHero1953]

30 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, that is correct, but nobody I know considers shutter speed when cropping (however misguided that may be  ) I don't believe in the 1/f formula anyway; it is too linked to the person of the photographer. I have steady hands, trained professionally and can handhold a 50 mm lens down to ¼ second, with luck  and wasted shots even longer, others will struggle at 1/125.

Good for you. Not everyone has that ability. Its only relevance to what makes a good photograph is as a means to an end, so if that's how you take good photos, fine. Again, not everyone can do that, or wants or needs to. Personally I would rather use whatever tools and technology there are out there to achieve my end.

Steady hands are nothing to do with subject movement. And in the case of the Q2, the subject blur is the same in the original raw, whatever the crop factor. The point being argued here is that blur (hand shake or subject) becomes more visible when you crop - so a system that increased shutter speed when you select a smaller crop would help mitigate this.

Edited May 28, 2022 by LocalHero1953
Edited to make my response sound less irritated.

[hdmesa]

I don't understand why photographers that prefer not to use a given feature due to it being too automated love to jump into these discussions about the details of how the automated features are implemented. If you don't use the automation, why would we want your logic applied to its implementation? We wouldn't

 

[hdmesa]

Solution IMO would be to have two different crop modes – one that remains as it is (with X/f and exposure as it is now) and one that fills the frame in the EVF with the crop (with X/f and exposure based on the crop).

[LocalHero1953]

TBH I think there are quite a number of camera makers that are trying to work how best to take advantage of high pixel sensors. After all, for most people, 24+ megapixels in a single image is overkill. So if you can offer 50, 60 or 100 mp, what features do you offer that help punters use them. Eventually they will all settle down with a common way of managing cropping, file size, resolution etc, but meanwhile it's a bit random. Even within Leica, the Q2 takes a different approach to the M11. Who knows whether Leica, Sony or Fuji have the most useful approach? I bet they are all watching each other carefully.