Early finders and their cases

[alan mcfall]

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I received recently a somewhat common 90 "cradle" Leitz finder (SOOUT). It came with an interesting leather case that I had not seen before. I believe it was from 1943 or 44 and not the brief post- war version. I searched but could not find the code word for this early SOOUT leather case. It prompted me to look at other early finders and their cases, and a scramble through my poorly organized drawers of leica finders. I grouped first the waist level, then the folding and finally the cradle type finders and their cases that I had available. In this photo, we have the waist level finders.

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The bottom row is the AUFSU in early form without the accessory shoe, about 1932, and the proper small case AUFET that fits it tightly. These early waist level finders do not typically have the cross hair lines on the top window. In short order, likely with user prompting, Leitz modified the AUFSU to include an accessory shoe extension at the rear.  These are the second highest row, including boxes and a larger leather case that seems to have used the same code word AUFET as the early finder.  By 1933, the 35mm lens was in common use and Leitz modified the AUFSU to include a swing-in lens for the correct wide angle view (AYOOC), these are shown in row 3 from the bottom with a new type case that is wider and has code ETHOO. Finally the top row shows the 1934/5  swing-in finder that would go with the new 28 Hektor wide angle lens (AHOOT), it used the same leather case as the 35 swing-in (ETHOO). A single 73 waist level finder has been noted, but it is likely a prototype of one-off. The fact the finder and the leather case were available separately and the probability of misplacing the case, seems to make the cases harder to find than the finders.

A closer view of these 4 types is shown below.  Folding and cradle finders to be in a later post.

 

 

 

 

[alan mcfall]

The folding sports finders are primarily 73, 90, and 135mm. Literature suggests the 105  was planned, but either they are extremely limited or were never built.  The 73 on the left in the photo is the one harder to find. The 90 (middle) and the 135 (right) are available but rare with box or case. The first listings had black available, but they are exceedingly rare, most are chrome. Parallax correction is in both feet and meters. Beginning in 1935 and discontinued during the war, 1942 or 43. The proper leather case for all of these was the COOLG. Germany is stamped on some, evidently intended for export.

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[ironringer]

Thank you Alan for sharing your "finds" and showing us some very unusual boxes and cases. Good stuff, and educational for future rummaging at - if they return - photography swap meets 🙂.

[PG Black nickel]

Hello Alan,
You who are a finders specialist can probably give me the answer.
I have a very old Hektor nickel 2,8cm in the first numbers...2500XX (1935), I have difficulty to determine which finder was planned for this lens, the black SUOOQ or the AHOOT ?
Philippe,

[jc_braconi]

For illustration :

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[alan mcfall]

9 hours ago, PG Black nickel said:

I have a very old Hektor nickel 2,8cm in the first numbers...2500XX (1935), I have difficulty to determine which finder was planned for this lens, the black SUOOQ or the AHOOT ?

I believe the SUOOQ was first. Here is a photo of some 28 Hektor items.

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The camera is a 1935 black and nickel model III, serial 159496, with nickel 28 Hektor, 250076. The black paint SUOOQ finder is mounted  and the AHOOT, two versions of the hood, bakelite case, lens box, finder box and VIDOM and VIOOD are shown.

The introduction brochure for the Hektor, dated Sep. 1935, shows the folding SUOOQ as the matching finder, the AHOOT is typically dated as beginning in 1936. Also, it seems likely that Leitz would not want a waist level finder to be the "normal" finder, but rather an accessory for a unique camera holding position. The Imarect did not have the TUVOO 28 adapter until 1941 as best I can tell. One hood, SHOON, is Wetzlar, 1935, the other is the New York one available from 1941. The correct hood for this nickel lens would have the nickel set screw.  The VIOOD is the New York version of the TUVOO. Produced with the IMFIN to replace items unavailable due to war time shortages.

So, I think the SUOOQ predated the AHOOT slightly.

[alan mcfall]

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Now we have the open "saddle"  rigid optical finders. Appearing first in 1943, after the folding were discontinued, were the 73, 90 and 135, after the war the 85 and 50 were briefly also listed, but the 50 is very rare and the 85 has only been reported on one or two occasions.  The prewar 73 is also unlikely to exist. All availability ceased in 1951/52 as they were replaced with a closed bright line type.

This photos shows the 50 (SOODL) on the top, the 90 in the center and a couple of 135's on the bottom.

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and here a close up,

 

and a shot of the 90 in a case that I cannot confirm as correct.

 

That was the start of my search, to find the code word for this case with the tuck-in flap rather than a snap. Was it prewar? If anyone has information regarding the cases for these "saddle" finders, it would be appreciated. The dearth of literature between 1943 and 1949 is understandable.  I have never seen the proper case for the 50 SOODL either.

[alan mcfall]

Not to omit the 28 folding finder mentioned in post #6, and beautifully shown in post #5,  a photo of both the chrome and black paint versions.

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and a close up....

another,

Both with code word SUOOQ, also discontinued about 1943 along with the sport folding finders. Shown in the first photo is the YSOOE shoe that was required with these finders were used with the standard or model E camera. Ideally, when used with a nickel 28 lens the foot of the black viewer would also be  nickel. Here the leather case was listed as RVZOO, but I have not located one yet. From 1935 to 1943 this folding finder would have been the one to use with your new 28 Hektor.

Edited May 19, 2022 by alan mcfall

[alan mcfall]

Moving on with the small special optical finders. In 1933 the 35 Elmar lens could be framed with the WEISU, prior to that, a VIDOM or VISOR type viewer was required. Available in black or chrome, both with a "flared" front to mount the front glass. Available for nearly 10 years, it was replaced in 1942/43 with the same code, but now having a smooth front to the square tube. This later version is uncommon and in chrome only. Here we see some of these dedicated finders.

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The WEISU is in the middle and right. On the left is the 50mm SUWOO which was offered for use on the OLEYO single shot device. Note the shoe is located near the front to bring the rear eyepiece farther back for ease of use. Because of this unique application the SUWOO is not often found.

 Leather cases for these two finders are hard to identify, even Laney's excellent leather compendium (p 372 2nd edition) doesn't seem to show unique listed cases. Typically, I see the small soft leather or deerskin purses accompany the finders, as in photo 1. They are similar in size to the APOOM case which was used for the slow speed device.

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:38 PM, alan mcfall said:

The folding sports finders are primarily 73, 90, and 135mm. Literature suggests the 105  was planned, but either they are extremely limited or were never built.  The 73 on the left in the photo is the one harder to find. The 90 (middle) and the 135 (right) are available but rare with box or case. The first listings had black available, but they are exceedingly rare, most are chrome. Parallax correction is in both feet and meters. Beginning in 1935 and discontinued during the war, 1942 or 43. The proper leather case for all of these was the COOLG. Germany is stamped on some, evidently intended for export.

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Hello alan,

This is all very nice. Thank you for doing this.

Jim Lager, in his 1978 "Leica Illustrated Guide II", writes that the collapsible finders are:

7.3 cm - SAIOO

9 cm - SEROO

10.5 cm - SIZOO

13.5 cm SYEOO

He also writes about the SIZOO: "may not have been manufactured"

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 20, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[PG Black nickel]

Thank you Luigi, thank you Alan,

This confirms to me that it is indeed the suooq first. Now I have to find a black one...with a nickel foot! I would have better luck finding a needle in a haystack as we say in France!

[wizard]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb PG Black nickel:

I would have better luck finding a needle in a haystack as we say in France!

We have exactly the same saying in Germany, too. So good luck in finding the item, it is out there somewhere!

[jc_braconi]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:35 AM, alan mcfall said:

Moving on with the small special optical finders. In 1933 the 35 Elmar lens could be framed with the WEISU, prior to that, a VIDOM or VISOR type viewer was required. Available in black or chrome, both with a "flared" front to mount the front glass. Available for nearly 10 years, it was replaced in 1942/43 with the same code, but now having a smooth front to the square tube. This later version is uncommon and in chrome only. Here we see some of these dedicated finders.

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The WEISU is in the middle and right. On the left is the 50mm SUWOO which was offered for use on the OLEYO single shot device. Note the shoe is located near the front to bring the rear eyepiece farther back for ease of use. Because of this unique application the SUWOO is not often found.

 Leather cases for these two finders are hard to identify, even Laney's excellent leather compendium (p 372 2nd edition) doesn't seem to show unique listed cases. Typically, I see the small soft leather or deerskin purses accompany the finders, as in photo 1. They are similar in size to the APOOM case which was used for the slow speed device.

Alan, I was awaiting, for at least, one picture of a TUVOO...

[alan mcfall]

Ok, first the folding frame sports finder, originally called "direct vision finder". Initially available in 1933 in black and then later in chrome.  Removable auxiliary mask, RAMET and a pivoting distance adjustment allowed the framing for all lenses at the time, 35.50.73.90.105 and 135. The early mask was "solid" while the later version had "windows". Parallax correction was included in feet or meters. This finder with removable mask was discontinued around 1943.

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The back row is the post-war ROSOL where the mask was now attached and folded up.

     

Early solid mask on the left. A soft deerskin case was used before the war. A hard leather case is more common with the post war ROSOL. For both cases, the code was RWBOO.

[willeica]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:38 AM, alan mcfall said:

The 73 on the left in the photo is the one harder to find. 

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There is my 7.3 cm finder with the case for it. Don't ask me why the MOOLY is here, but this combo could well rival a Nikon F with motor drive for weight!

William 

[alan mcfall]

On to the TUVOO, 28mm attachment. The VIDOM finder not only did not accommodate the new 28mm Hektor, but suffered from the image being the wrong way around. In 1939, Leitz corrected this with the new VIOOH finder, the image was now correct thanks to prisms, but still it did not work for the wide angle 28 lens. The first VIOOH finders did not have a threaded front or cone, but were just tapered metal. It was variable from 35 to 135mm, and that was it. I am not sure where the idea to modify the VIOOH by adding an auxiliary optical cone came from, but it did not appear for a couple of years. From 1935 until about 1941, owners of the 28 Hektor had to use the SUOOQ folding or AHOOT swing-in finder. During the early part of the war, Leitz built a panarama outfit, grey 3c and 135 Hektor, where the VIOOH was used in the reverse direction and a small eye shade was screwed into the front of the finder, via a new thread. Maybe this gave the idea that an optical unit could be attached to the front. Anyway, the finders now had a threaded front and the TUVOO attachment was made available somewhere between 1940-42, and lasted until the mid 50's.

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On the left are two of the early VIOOH finders with the unthreaded nose, and the 105 dial setting. The later finders with the treaded nose support the TUVOO, the total thread is 1 and 1/2 turns, but it stays on tightly. The assembly of the VIOOH and the TUVOO gave a nice viewer for the 28mm lens.

During the war, approximately 1944, Leitz New York, produced similar units, the IMFIN and the VIOAD. For some reason, the New York IMFIN still did not have the threaded nose on the early production. Perhaps using spare parts from earlier German shipments.  And the 105 setting was quickly changed to match the 127mm lens. The VIOAD seems identical to the TUVOO except for the New York engraving. This photo is all New York items, discontinued after Wetzlar resumed production.

 

Here is a diagram of these items. There are many more small variations that I did not discuss. Such as serial numbers and body shape evolution. Actual launch dates for products between 1941 and 1946 are understandably not always precise.