Digital CM or Minilux ?

[nicci78]

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Do you think that Leica should make a digital version of Minilux or CM ? 
 

Such as a tiny APS-C with EVF and a 27mm f/2.4 lens = Summarit 40mm ? 
would be awesome. 
 

Q2 is very nice. But far from being pocketable. 
CL or TL + Elmarit-TL 18mm are not really pocket friendly either. 

A Leica reinterpretation of Ricoh GR IIIx with EVF would be so nice. 

[wda]

It was called the X1. Leica lost faith in it, and probaby didn't keep its designer. They have relied on Panasonic for its C and D ranges.

Many share your view, but under current management,  Leica are focusing on meeting the whims of the super-rich, in Asia and Russia. Witness the launch of Leica watches and smart phones. Very sad for traditional photographers. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I agree with wda, at least to a certain extent. This really was the X1, X2 and X Vario. They are not quite as small as the Ricoh. But honestly, I think the question is also, what is wrong with a Ricoh GRIIIx that Leica could improve such to justify what would surely be at least triple the price. The GRIIIx is very good and very well designed for its niche. Ricoh has had a long time to tweak the GR series, and at this point the body and lens work very well. And it is round about a thousand dollars, where any Leica would probably not start below 3000. 

Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to see one, but I think it would be a real engineering challenge and there are two extremely strong competitors in the field -- the Fuji X100 series and the Ricoh GR (not to mention the Sony RX cameras). All of them would likely be cheaper than what Leica could offer. Personally, I think the camera I would want would be an X100 equivalent camera...basically a Leica Q with a compact 35mm or 40mm lens with a hybrid viewfinder. But I think my chances of getting it are extraordinarily small. In the meantime, I have the GRIIIx and the Q2, and between the two of them I am very well catered to when it comes to compact cameras. The Q2 has the quality, and the Ricoh has the pocket-ability for situations when I would otherwise not carry a camera at all.

[nicci78]

What’s wrong with GR III ? 
1. I never bound to Ricoh ergonomics 
2. No EVF. 
3. No more flash.
Weirdly manufactures did not understand the appeal of on board tiny flash coupled with leaf shutter of a compact camera. The pop up flash is certainly what makes X1, X2, X Vario, X and X Vario still viable today. 
However such tiny flash are useless with focal plane shutter camera. Hence it is less useful on T and TL. Making them the less desirable Leica cameras ever. 
 

Leica can resuscitate X3 in tiny format. Not the stupidly large X typ 113 one. And still retaining pop up flash. 
Or go CM/Minilux keep the on board flash and add EVF and Summarit 40mm equi. f/2.4.

Such camera will sell in enough quantity if you use CL tech or better. 
 

I have a feeling that APS-C future lies into very compact camera form factor. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by nicci78

[tom0511]

Just take the CL+18 or 23mm and you have it

Yes, the x1 was it and I loved it in the beginning. Later the X became bigger (bigger lens) and Leica didnt manage to improve the AF, so it became less interesting option.

 

[nicci78]

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want X1 format. It is way too thick for being really pocketable.  CL + TL 18mm is far from being jeans 👖  front or back pocket friendly. 
TL2 is thinner and slicker therefore better suited for that task. 
 

What I want is a reborn if miniLux in digital format : really tiny with retractable ans awesome Summarit 40mm lens. 
Something as small as Ricoh GR II with integrated EVF. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by nicci78

[wda]

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The CM at 41mm deep and 117mm long is not a shirt pocket camera. The Minox GL might be nearer the Ricoh hot favourite.

[nicci78]

49 minutes ago, wda said:

The CM at 41mm deep and 117mm long is not a shirt pocket camera. The Minox GL might be nearer the Ricoh hot favourite.

Ricoh GR APS-C is LxHxD : 117mm x 61mm x 35mm 245g

Close enough to Leica CM : 117mm x 65mm x 36mm 300g

Leica X1 is : 124mm x 69mm x 51.5mm 345g.
Which is way too thick. 
 

Leica CL is : 131mm x 78mm x  45mm 403g without lens. Elmarit-TL 18mm is 21mm thick and 80g.
So CL 18mm is : 131mm x 78mm x 66mm 483g. 
which is way bigger than X1. 
CL is definitely not the X3 

Edited March 2, 2022 by nicci78

[wda]

The CM eyepiece adds another 6mm to its depth, hence my measured 41mm, not a shirt pocket camera.

[nicci78]

Finally I caved in. I bought last week a Ricoh GR IIIx. 40mm of awesomeness ! 
Crazy small, exceptional ergonomics, absolutely great IQ, 

Leica don’t bother to release X3. Ricoh get us cover. 
 

BTW : no need to buy Elmarit-TL 2,8/18mm nor Summicron-TL 2/23mm for TL2 or CL. Ricoh GR III/IIIx are way better solutions.  
Neither TL2 or CL can get this small no matter what. 
AF is on par with CL.  
IBIS is awesome by the way. 

[nicci78]

Fed up to wait for unicorn X3 and CL2. I gave up on Leica and embraced Ricoh GR III + IIIx ! 
 

Awesome twin cameras. I am ordering GW-4 and GT-2 to get a complet kit : 21mm + 28mm + 40mm + 75mm

 

Leica CL and Q2 look like giant new to them  

 

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[nicci78]

What’s make them great even without EVF ? The screen brightness is on par with my OLED iPhone 11 Pro. 
CL and Q2 at max brightness is somewhere between the #0 and #1 setting of GR III, that can reaches #2 which is way brighter. 
 

To sum up, with Q2 and CL you will use EVF much more often due to lack of rear screen luminosity. 

[lmans]

I am not going to take too much of a potshot at Ricoh but I feel that since someone brought it up as 'having nothing wrong'....I might was well enter the picture here..... I have shot with the GR 11 and 111 for years.....years. I found that the image coming from them was simply extraordinary. But what I tired of was two things. First, while I didn't mind NOT having an ETF, I did find myself becoming very 'phone-like' in my approach. The intangible aspect of shooting a camera was missing. I felt like I was just shooting my i-phone and I am not quite going there as a photography tool; more a every day man's tool that doesn't know how to use a camera. 

The second thing that got me turned off of the Ricoh was the lack of manual focus plus the over-reliance upon not using any controls and just having a "go of it' without thinking about the mechanical tools of photography (exposure, F-stop, shutter etc). Ricoh makes that very easy to do, too easy. I come from shooting film and while I did that while at the same time shooting with the Ricoh, the Ricoh was giving me less enjoyment than what the product produced in images.

So.....I migrated to my X2 which gave me more control I felt as I placed a ETF onto of the camera. I have a monochrome which further allows me to  challenge myself with greater manual focus (the X2 sucks at that), as well as using a 28 or 25 or 50. 

I think it is unfair to compare the Q to the Ricoh, for they are entirely different animals. Anyone can use any gear for street photography but that doesn't mean they are equal. It just depends on how you shoot.      

But Leica needs to look at profit and as someone mentioned, the Ricoh is competition as well as some of the smaller Fuji's.. I don't regard the x100 a direct competitor to the GR. I do regard the X series (1, 2,  Vario) as but they are not going to bring that back the X3... Just not enough profit in it.

[Herr Barnack]

JMHO but the Q2 beats the pants off both the CL and the Ricoh GR III. 

Yes, both are smaller and less money, but I still stand by the Q2, both color and monochrome versions.

[wda]

Hardly a fair comparison. I rate the as complementary.