Keeping my SL2, but I think I’m done with autofocus - M glass is my joint

[trickness]

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1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

This prooves how different people  connect to equipment.

Just yesterday used the M and thought to myself, that I had missed some spontanious shots of my kids, which I would have nailed when I had my SL2 with face detection with me.

I also feel the SL lenses are better than their M counterparts (except some of the APO M lenses).

But if I focus manually with M lenses, I rather use an M body.

So in my case I use M on the M and SL-lenses with AF on the SL2, but seldom adapt M lenses to the SL2. (Except 28mm, where I dont own an SL prime), or if I want to bring the compact 21 SEM because of its small size.

Hey - which SL lenses you plan to sell? 

I zone focus at f/8 with a 28, with a high enough shutter speed you’re not going to miss a shot. Of course if you’re shooting at F/2, different story. I’ve kind of gotten over that thing of shooting everything wide-open… Except when I’m using the 75 Nocti 😎.

If I do sell my SL glass, it would be the 35 & 75 Summicrons.

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[hansvons]

2 hours ago, trickness said:

I think some folks are misunderstanding my original post. I didn’t create it to criticize the auto focus capabilities of the SL2 or the SL2 glass - this is not one of those threads.

Hi Trickness, I never read your starting post as such a rant. The possible misunderstanding comes from the results you want to achieve and what gets you there best. For faces that are moving as they please, the SL2's faces recognition AF works much better than my eye-hand system. That's when I use the Leica's AF. For anything else, I don't use AF. MF does it mostly better. 

So here we are. Boringly, no dissent.

2 hours ago, trickness said:

And you’re correct, I don’t know anything about making films, I’m not a filmmaker, I’m a photographer, trying to be a better one. 🤓

Well, can say the same about me. My stills photography skills are somewhat in their infancy. Way to go. And AF won't bring me closer to that. That's why I only have one AF lens and that is the the 24-90, Leica's Swiss Army knife. Won't get any other AF lens. No need. 

[trickness]

9 hours ago, caissa said:

Instead of a SL2 you could just as well use a SL with M lenses. I enjoy it even better and it is cheaper.

I sold my SL to help fund the purchase of my SL2. The SL is a great camera, but the SL2 is greater still.

[trickness]

Just now, hansvons said:

Hi Trickness, I never read your starting post as such a rant. The possible misunderstanding comes from the results you want to achieve and what gets you there best. For faces that are moving as they please, the SL2's faces recognition AF works much better than my eye-hand system. That's when I use the Leica's AF. For anything else, I don't use AF. MF does it mostly better. 

So here we are. Boringly, no dissent.

Well, can say the same about me. My stills photography skills are somewhat in their infancy. Way to go. And AF won't bring me closer to that. That's why I only have one AF lens and that is the the 24-90, Leica's Swiss Army knife. Won't get any other AF lens. No need. 

I do street photography so everything is always moving. Sometimes I am within 3 feet of the subject when I snap the shutter, and we are both walking towards each other. Just my opinion, but I don’t think any auto focus system in the world works as well as a manual lens (21 or 28) zone-focused to f/8 with the correct shutter speed (1/250th or greater) in this use case scenario.

I guess that’s the thing most of us are agreeing on here… It really depends on how you work, what kind of pictures you take, what you are trying to accomplish creatively, and how you want to connect with your tools. I do think the SL glass is capable of making images that to my eye are superior to images made with M glass on the SL, they just aren’t very pleasing to use in manual focus mode. Can’t have it all!

[hansvons]

2 minutes ago, trickness said:

Sometimes I am within 3 feet of the subject when I snap the shutter, and we are both walking towards each other. Just my opinion, but I don’t think any auto focus system in the world works as well as a manual lens (21 or 28) zone-focused to f/8 with the correct shutter speed (1/250th or greater) in this use case scenario.

Cinema lenses have witness marks on their focus barrel that tell you the focus distance accurately on the centimetre. To my surprise, my Leica R glass is pretty precise in that regard too. That makes it usable for zone focusing, even at more open apertures. Gauging the distance and selecting the focus via the witness marks and not via eyeball/viewfinder can be a timesaver and pretty accurate with some training (actually more accurate because you can pull the focus in advanced, kind of letting walk the subject into focus). Done in filmmaking all the time (focus puller).

[Dennis]

19 minutes ago, trickness said:

I do street photography so everything is always moving. Sometimes I am within 3 feet of the subject when I snap the shutter, and we are both walking towards each other.

Bruce Gilden style? 😎

.

When I loaned the SL2-S, I didn't use manual focus, only AF. Now I'm curious how it would have been to use my M lenses on the SL. 

My only EVF is the one of the Q2M. Do you know if the focus peaking or the modus operandi are the same of the SL? Except resolution and color, of course.

I much prefer an OVF, but never tried, so I can't tell... 

[trickness]

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1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Bruce Gilden style? 😎

.

When I loaned the SL2-S, I didn't use manual focus, only AF. Now I'm curious how it would have been to use my M lenses on the SL. 

My only EVF is the one of the Q2M. Do you know if the focus peaking or the modus operandi are the same of the SL? Except resolution and color, of course.

I much prefer an OVF, but never tried, so I can't tell... 

perhaps some of the technique of Gilden, but very little of the talent 😂 - here is my IG: http://www.instagram.com/thetrickness

I have a Q2M also, 90% of the shots are taken with zone focusing unless I’m doing close up portraiture. It’s very similar to the SL in peaking etc but the SL has smarter autofocus I think, more options.

[Cattoo]

20 hours ago, trickness said:

I fear I’d regret selling the beautiful SL glass, but 9 times out of 10 I grab the M glass. 

Just curious.  Autofocus aside, do you think you would miss the weather-sealing?  That let's you go some places in some circumstances that you might not want to with M glass.

 

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb trickness:

I zone focus at f/8 with a 28, with a high enough shutter speed you’re not going to miss a shot. Of course if you’re shooting at F/2, different story. I’ve kind of gotten over that thing of shooting everything wide-open… Except when I’m using the 75 Nocti 😎.

If I do sell my SL glass, it would be the 35 & 75 Summicrons.

too bad you don't sell 28 SL, I might have been interested

I agree, zone focus works with 28mm at higher f-stops, but 35,50,75...I really like AF, specially for all subjects which are not totally still. I know its doable but over the years I had so many shots where focus was just ok, but not really nailed. I don't doubt in no way that MF works better for you though.

[aksclix]

21 hours ago, trickness said:

Looking at my SL work over the past couple of years, I have a handful of shots with my SL glass, and a ton (like 85%) with M glass. It’s not because of the weight, and certainly it isn’t because of the image quality - the SL glass is insanely gorgeous. I took my 35 SL down to Chinatown for celebrations yesterday and I felt so disconnected - no matter what settings, whether face detection, or using back button focusing, I just felt like autofocus  always was getting in my way, taking too long to decide what to focus on, or not doing exactly what I wanted it to. I switched to manual focusing but I don’t find it enjoyable because of the focus throw, takes too long to dial in. I could zone focus, but then I think why am I using this big lens when I could have M glass with me?

I’m not bagging on the SL autofocus in particular, I am just feeling an aversion to autofocus in general. I went back and forth between SL and M glass at the same focal lengths this morning and every time I went to to M glass it was like “ahhhhhhh….” Even if the focus wasn’t spot on, in fact the ability to control what was in and out of focus was a huge strength of the M glass. The SL shots, yep, nailed focus every time, but I felt less in control creatively. I’m struggling to envision a usage scenario where I would ever prefer or need autofocus - I don’t shoot sports or any fast movement, and I hate handing over control to a computer. Does anyone else have similar feelings or experiences, and if so, what did you end up doing? 

The SL2 is such a  beast with M glass, my 75 Nocti and 50 1.4 Lux M shots are just gorgeous wide open, and stopped down its an incredible street camera. I fear I’d regret selling the beautiful SL glass, but 9 times out of 10 I grab the M glass. 

 

 

How about using the native SL glass to manual focus and switching to AF when the lighting is better? While adaptability is great, native glass is native glass! Optimized for a specific body,. M and SL glasses aren’t too different price wise either to make the M more attractive.. 

[trickness]

12 minutes ago, Cattoo said:

Just curious.  Autofocus aside, do you think you would miss the weather-sealing?  That let's you go some places in some circumstances that you might not want to with M glass.

 

Yeah I’m very lucky in that I have a Q2M, and that is my rain camera for sure. Of course I use it on nice days as well but when there is foul weather I’m very confident with the Q2M.

[trickness]

5 minutes ago, aksclix said:

How about using the native SL glass to manual focus and switching to AF when the lighting is better? While adaptability is great, native glass is native glass! Optimized for a specific body,. M and SL glasses aren’t too different price wise either to make the M more attractive.. 

I don’t like the focus throw on the SL glass, it’s nowhere near as nice to use as manually focusing M glass. And although you can see the display of the depth of field on the top of the camera at a given aperture, I really wish they put the markings on the barrel of the SL lenses. I know these are nitpicking, but having a very small lens (by comparison) mounted with a focus tab and a depth of field scale right under my nose it’s just very comfortable and convenient, I don’t think manual focusing is a strength of SL glass.

That said the SL glass is capable of producing completely stunning results, Which is why I’ve kept it, and why am trying to force myself to shoot with it. You know that old adage, “never sell a Leica lens”….

Edited February 14, 2022 by trickness

[aksclix]

6 minutes ago, trickness said:

I don’t like the focus throw on the SL glass, it’s nowhere near as nice to use as manually focusing M glass. And although you can see the display of the depth of field on the top of the camera at a given aperture, I really wish they put the markings on the barrel of the SL lenses. I know these are nitpicking, but having a very small lens (by comparison) mounted with a focus tab and a depth of field scale right under my nose it’s just very comfortable and convenient, I don’t think manual focusing is a strength of SL glass.

Yea, I see your point.. the buttery smooth accurate manual focus operation on the M lenses I’ve tried and the Zeiss otus 55 I have are in a different league.. 

anyway, personal preference is extremely key to an enjoyable experience.. when you have tried and tested your options you definitely know what you like better.. so, I guess SLM is your way 😀 with my SL2’s unreliable AF in challenging light I override with MF as well anyway

Edited February 14, 2022 by aksclix

[hdmesa]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:21 PM, trickness said:

Looking at my SL work over the past couple of years, I have a handful of shots with my SL glass, and a ton (like 85%) with M glass. It’s not because of the weight, and certainly it isn’t because of the image quality - the SL glass is insanely gorgeous. I took my 35 SL down to Chinatown for celebrations yesterday and I felt so disconnected - no matter what settings, whether face detection, or using back button focusing, I just felt like autofocus  always was getting in my way, taking too long to decide what to focus on, or not doing exactly what I wanted it to. I switched to manual focusing but I don’t find it enjoyable because of the focus throw, takes too long to dial in. I could zone focus, but then I think why am I using this big lens when I could have M glass with me?

I’m not bagging on the SL autofocus in particular, I am just feeling an aversion to autofocus in general. I went back and forth between SL and M glass at the same focal lengths this morning and every time I went to to M glass it was like “ahhhhhhh….” Even if the focus wasn’t spot on, in fact the ability to control what was in and out of focus was a huge strength of the M glass. The SL shots, yep, nailed focus every time, but I felt less in control creatively. I’m struggling to envision a usage scenario where I would ever prefer or need autofocus - I don’t shoot sports or any fast movement, and I hate handing over control to a computer. Does anyone else have similar feelings or experiences, and if so, what did you end up doing? 

The SL2 is such a  beast with M glass, my 75 Nocti and 50 1.4 Lux M shots are just gorgeous wide open, and stopped down its an incredible street camera. I fear I’d regret selling the beautiful SL glass, but 9 times out of 10 I grab the M glass. 

Absolutely. I bought the SL2-S specifically and exclusively to use with M lenses. I will be using some L-mount lenses for 1:1 macro (Sigma 70 Macro Art) and long telephoto (TBD). I mainly shoot landscape and other non-moving subjects, so it makes sense for me. All my lenses hit infinity at the hard stop on the SL2-S with M Adapter L, so shooting stopped down at infinity is actually faster than trying to use AF or manually focus an AF lens back and forth around infinity trying to hit it perfectly.

I would still prefer to have an SL body with M-like shape and controls with EVF, L-mount, and IBIS – but the SL2-S will do for now.

[Planetwide]

On 2/13/2022 at 5:36 PM, trickness said:

Deeply helpful advice, you obviously read my post closely. Kudos for putting in the effort!

Yes, I was being a smart a$$, but hey... 

A couple of suggestions. Go Menu, Focusing, MF Setup and select 90 or 120 degrees. That will reduce the focus throw on the SL lenses.

If using AF, go Menu, select AFs, then back to the menu, then select AF Mode Tracking. In the viewfinder the AF box will be centred. Place it on your desired focus point and half press the shutter button, it will track your point now, recompose and shoot. Nothing is faster than this method IMHO.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Planetwide

[trickness]

46 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

Yes, I was being a smart a$$, but hey... 

A couple of suggestions. Go Menu, Focusing, MF Setup and select 90 or 120 degrees. That will reduce the focus throw on the SL lenses.

If using AF, go Menu, select AFs, then back to the menu, then select AF Mode Tracking. In the viewfinder the AF box will be centred. Place it on your desired focus point and half press the shutter button, it will track your point now, recompose and shoot. Nothing is faster than this method IMHO.

Thanks man. Your first tip I did not know, I’ll give that a try. The second tip I was aware of but thanks again!

[GlennC63]

Having owned both the SL and the SL2, and a few SL lenses, I always seemed to prefer shooting with my M glass instead of my L mount glass.  Not sure why, other than i still think Leica has the most intuitive user interface on the SL series for manual focus.

[trickness]

20 hours ago, Planetwide said:

 

A couple of suggestions. Go Menu, Focusing, MF Setup and select 90 or 120 degrees. That will reduce the focus throw on the SL lenses.

 

This is SUCH a helpful tip - I had no idea you could electronically manipulate the focus throw on the SL lenses, obviously my comments about them being less than ideal for manual use must now be regarded as incorrect - a good reminder that when one is in doubt, RTFM! 🤣

Changed the setting to 120 degrees and man, what a HUGE difference. Game changer for manual focus with these lenses - thanks again!

Edited February 15, 2022 by trickness

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[Planetwide]

Glad that I could help, and I apologize for being a smart a$$. The SL lenses are the best in the world, so I would hate to see you give them up. With that said, I also own and use M glass with my SL2 as well.

[Reddy]

I think everyone would be depending on what lenses they have and which one used the most as reference. For me the L mount body can take the M lenses, along with the big long R telephoto lenses and some M42 lenses. M lenses always win in terms of size and weight, but lately I'm looking for image quality for my work, like the SL AA90mm f2 has different lens construction formula and new coatings, with accurate focus the SL lenses are amazing. By the way I'm new to AF but i think i have managed pretty good with single point focusing. I believe there will be new M and SL bodies so which body is your main that doesn't matter, but will the SL lenses last like M lenses and able to modify for later system,  this is what I'm interested to know to put my money into.