Return brand new M10-R black paint for M11?

[Daedalus2000]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I also have the M11 and I don't have the same experience lol unless you mean ISO 1600 = High ISO : p 

Either way, it's not night and day between the M10 and the M11, it's a very minor improvement when it comes to low light performance. And as Reid Reviews showed, the M10R performs better than the M11 all the way up to ISO 6400, although it's almost the same. 

 

Ok, I will start by saying of course we can all have our opinions and I respect yours. But the difference is that I have provided evidence in multiple posts on the noise of the M11, but I have not seen any evidence on your opinion about the noise performance. Unfortunately I do not subscribe to  Reid's website anymore, so I cant see exactly what he tested and if he adjusted for the size of the output.

Here are a couple of my posts :

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Daedalus2000

[M9reno]

2 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

It's perfectly reasonably to come to an opposite conclusion, but the underlying 'you a-holes are just a bunch of idiots trying to convince yourselves you did the right thing', comes off as disingenuous and insulting. .

Like I said before, defensive. And quite unpleasant. Underlying insults are inferred where there are obviously none, just a different opinion.

[NicholasT]

I address this message to everyone (myself included) and nobody in particular.

This forum would be better served if we all provided our opinion or as it were "our version of the facts" while avoiding the temptation of becoming mind readers i.e that we somehow know the inner intent of others and simply can't resist sharing that information with the world. 

I've read a number of posts which were perfectly fine were in not for the gratuitous verbal volley taken at one person, group or "perceived" group. To what end? Is there something specific to be gained? Does the verbal assault somehow strengthen the argument in the post?

I generally enjoy this forum, I find it very informative and at times even amusing. That said, this pattern of behavior detracts so much from everything that is good, that the thought "there must be something better I should be doing with my time" increasingly pops into my head. 

In reading the above please consider the spirit that was intended. 

[Tailwagger]

 

On 1/27/2022 at 4:10 PM, 349A said:

comments by those trying to rationalize their purchase while the evidence isn’t there

3 hours ago, M9reno said:

Like I said before, defensive. And quite unpleasant. Underlying insults are inferred where there are obviously none

Right. No attempt to poke there. Way to take the high road. 

 

 

[349A]

You’re really insecure! Its a camera, relax. 

[grahamc]

6 hours ago, NicholasT said:

I address this message to everyone (myself included) and nobody in particular.

This forum would be better served if we all provided our opinion or as it were "our version of the facts" while avoiding the temptation of becoming mind readers i.e that we somehow know the inner intent of others and simply can't resist sharing that information with the world. 

I've read a number of posts which were perfectly fine were in not for the gratuitous verbal volley taken at one person, group or "perceived" group. To what end? Is there something specific to be gained? Does the verbal assault somehow strengthen the argument in the post?

I generally enjoy this forum, I find it very informative and at times even amusing. That said, this pattern of behavior detracts so much from everything that is good, that the thought "there must be something better I should be doing with my time" increasingly pops into my head. 

In reading the above please consider the spirit that was intended. 

Agreed. I haven’t been on the forum long but definitely noticed this increasingly in the build up to the M11 being released.  
 

I thought it would subside after release but has gone up quite a few notches since then. If we accept this in the culture then it permeates to other threads too. 
 

Lately it’s been almost like you see on other forums when Sony users berate Leica users for their enjoyment of simplicity . Quite ironic really in the context of the release specs. 

(that last part was a joke everybody 😌)

Thanks once again for the positive post Nicholas ! 🙏🏻

Edited January 29, 2022 by grahamc

[thedwp]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I had an M10-R BP…got it right as the M11 was being officially announced. I never thought I’d sell it and didn’t think I’d be interested in the M11. But the more I used the BP the more it felt like a jewel that I didn’t want to get a scratch on. And who an I kidding that I would ever keep it long enough to achieve the beautiful brassing. I will say, hands down, IMO it’s the best looking M I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned way too many. 

In the end though, I sold it and went for the M11. And now that I have it, I feel like I can carry it around without being afraid I’ll drop it or bang it on the corner of a correct pylon. For me its about grabbing my cam and keeping it with me wherever I go.  All the extra new stuff aside, I was just getting to know the m10r sensor but once the dust settles, I hope to dial in my look and feel for the M11. 

[shirubadanieru]

3 hours ago, thedwp said:

I had an M10-R BP…got it right as the M11 was being officially announced. I never thought I’d sell it and didn’t think I’d be interested in the M11. But the more I used the BP the more it felt like a jewel that I didn’t want to get a scratch on. And who an I kidding that I would ever keep it long enough to achieve the beautiful brassing. I will say, hands down, IMO it’s the best looking M I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned way too many. 

In the end though, I sold it and went for the M11. And now that I have it, I feel like I can carry it around without being afraid I’ll drop it or bang it on the corner of a correct pylon. For me its about grabbing my cam and keeping it with me wherever I go.  All the extra new stuff aside, I was just getting to know the m10r sensor but once the dust settles, I hope to dial in my look and feel for the M11. 

interesting! i feel the opposite, the black paint is made to brass so I want to use it so it can brass & look as the old black paint leicas, whereas the black chrome or silver I feel more scared to scratch them etc. 

[M9reno]

10 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

 

Right. No attempt to poke there. Way to take the high road. 

 

 

"comments by those trying to rationalize their purchase while the evidence isn’t there"... is another way of saying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

... and just another person's opinion.

So no need to feel insulted.

[Daedalus2000]

2 hours ago, M9reno said:

"comments by those trying to rationalize their purchase while the evidence isn’t there"... is another way of saying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

... and just another person's opinion.

So no need to feel insulted.

There is a simple rule each one of us can follow to keep things polite and civilized:

When I read again my post am I focusing on the person or on the camera/subject that is discussed?

If you find that you talk mostly about the person, then it is obvious that you do not help the discussion move forward. We are not here to be told if we have "buyers remorse" or if we are rich/poor, young/old, amateurs or professionals. We come here to share our common interest and preference for a specific type of camera and to exchange information about a specific model and to share some pictures.

I have tried multiple times to offer evidence for my views on the M11, but noone, I mean noone, has even reacted to these posts, let alone replied to them. So it seems to me that there is a lack of discussion on the actual points and more discussion about the people, feelings, subjective views etc. Honestly I dont know why I bother.

 

[shirubadanieru]

Let’s nor argue guys, just sharing our opinions / experiences with the camera is all we need to do right? Come on, we’re all here because we love Leica so let’s stop this back and forth. 

I also shared here my opinions & experience with the M11, even if it differs from some people, that’s ok..it’s just personal opinions and preferences of what some prefer VS other people. And of course it’s normal that people who spent money buying a new camera, love it and want to justify their purchase, that’s totally normal behavior. It’s also normal that those who haven’t bought the camera for a number of reasons feel they might want to bash on the new Leica product, which to their eyes, is not worth the investment. Both of these are valid opinions, and both are ok. No need to argue or attack each other.

 

[shirubadanieru]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:01 AM, Daedalus2000 said:

Iso 6400, Adobe color, default noise parameters in LR. The left part is at middle grey exposure value.

Where is the color noise? I honestly dont know where you see it in your images. Are you looking at deep shadows?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Sorry i failed to noticed this; thank you for sharing. Yes I was referring to the shadow areas. That’s where I see clear color noise with anything above ISO 1600, I can’t show any examples now because my camera is on the leica customer care so that then can check for me if the camera is broken or not due to the battery issues and other bugs I was getting. Should be back next week.

[charlesphoto99]

10 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

interesting! i feel the opposite, the black paint is made to brass so I want to use it so it can brass & look as the old black paint leicas, whereas the black chrome or silver I feel more scared to scratch them etc. 

I've never once been afraid of actually using my M cameras as they were meant to be, no matter the finish, even if that means scratches, etc. If one is, then that means one is spending too much money for a camera. May as well put that money into stocks and get something they aren't in fear of.   

[Daedalus2000]

2 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

 If one is, then that means one is spending too much money for a camera. May as well put that money into stocks and get something they aren't in fear of.   

no, it does not mean that, it can mean any one of 20 other things. Lets stop pretending we know how are people think or what they should be doing. Lets focus on the camera... We just discussed this..

Edited January 29, 2022 by Daedalus2000

[Daedalus2000]

16 hours ago, thedwp said:

I had an M10-R BP…got it right as the M11 was being officially announced. I never thought I’d sell it and didn’t think I’d be interested in the M11. But the more I used the BP the more it felt like a jewel that I didn’t want to get a scratch on. And who an I kidding that I would ever keep it long enough to achieve the beautiful brassing. I will say, hands down, IMO it’s the best looking M I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned way too many. 

In the end though, I sold it and went for the M11. And now that I have it, I feel like I can carry it around without being afraid I’ll drop it or bang it on the corner of a correct pylon. For me its about grabbing my cam and keeping it with me wherever I go.  All the extra new stuff aside, I was just getting to know the m10r sensor but once the dust settles, I hope to dial in my look and feel for the M11. 

It is funny, but I feel the same and in combination with the lower weight of the actual camera I take it with me all the time now.

[Siriusone59]

To whoever returned their mint, still in plastic even on the screen,  black paint m10-r to exchange for the m11...I just wanted to say "Thank You".  I had been looking for a used one since they were discontinued.  I couldn't ask for a more perfect example and at a price that I couldn't complain about.  Without realizing it, you've made my day. Thanks!

[hdmesa]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:12 PM, Artin said:

...Temper temper mon captain...

Doesn't this comment belong in the "Q" forum? 😂

*joking in Star Trek*