Lens cap for 90mm Summicron (I b) - E48 14028?

[hiphopopotamus]

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I managed to order a recently CLA'd 90mm Summicron (1963 if my serial numbers are right, and version I b according to Leica pocket book 8th ed) for a nice price, but I just found out from the seller that it doesn't have the lens cap. So I went digging through my Leica pocket book, and various threads on this forum, to find info so that I could source a replacement before I get the lens in hand - but can't find a lens cap for sale anywhere that fits. 

It appears it has a fairly unique/outdated E48 filter size, another thread pointed me specifically to the number 14028.

Is my info right? If so, anyone know where I can find an appropriate lens cap...? 

Thanks

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[UliWer]

36 minutes ago, hiphopopotamus said:

It appears it has a fairly unique/outdated E48 filter size, another thread pointed me specifically to the number 14028.

Yes, this is right: the Leitz Catalogue from 1961 (the 90mm Summicron had the same built with 48mm filter size as in 1963)  lists the lens cap as 14028 P (the "P" doesn't matter). I have no interests in this offer: https://www.ebay.de/itm/294145044254?hash=item447c692f1e:g:SD4AAOSwIV1ghz34

Can you tell me the serial number of your Summicron? The batch from 1818... onwards is a very interesting one as there were lots of little changes. The earlier ones had f/16 as smallest f-stop with the same engraving on the shaft. Then there is a strange "hybrid" group of some hundred items with f/16 as real smallest f-stop, but f/22 engraved on the shaft. Only the last items including mine 1818889 have both f/22 as real f-stop and the engraving for it on the shaft.  I am on search for the number when the smallest f-stop changed from f/16 to f/22. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by UliWer

[hiphopopotamus]

Thanks so much for confirming! Of course, the serial number is 1983108, so it may be a fair bit later than the batch you're looking for? (Perhaps I have my serial number date references wrong?). From photos I can see that there is an f22 engraving on the lens, I'll report back once I have it in hand if it's still of interest if the aperture shuts down any further than f16. It's a scalloped focus/aperture ring design, and it's black, if that helps at all...

But that last point leads me back to sq.1 on the lens cap search unfortunately - the cap in the ebay listing is silver, so would be mismatched, plus at $99 is a not insignificant percentage of the overall cost of the lens. At the end of the day I'd rather have a silver cap than none at all, but that price would be too much to swallow I think, but thanks much for digging all the same!

Does anybody know of any other cap options? (I'm UK based if that makes a difference at all)

Edited December 5, 2021 by hiphopopotamus

[drew.saunders]

My possibly 1966 90/2 (no serial number, see my avatar and the thread discussing it) takes a 48mm filter and came with a plastic cap labeled Leitz 4 times on the outside, with 14133 and 63 ø on the inside. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by drew.saunders

[hiphopopotamus]

Thanks for the info! I will have a dig around for that cap too, much appreciated.

[Appears the rest of my earlier post here about series viii vs series vii filters was slightly misguided, so I'll update as and when I've got a better understanding of which filters could serve as a lens cap in lieu of any other cost effective option!]

Edited December 6, 2021 by hiphopopotamus

[UliWer]

1 hour ago, hiphopopotamus said:

the serial number is 1983108, so it may be a fair bit later than the batch you're looking for?

Yes, lenses with 19... all have f/22. My theory is that the last number from the 1818... series with f/22 and the same features as the 19... series were produced also in 1963, not 1961 as the general consent believes. But never mind.

The cap for the 4/200mm Telyt does not fit! It had 58mm filter size and a much larger inbuilt hood so the cap is also much larger (Nr. 14044). The older 1:4.5/20cm Telyt had 48mm filter size but the cap also does not fit the Summicron, since the old Telyt had no inbuilt hood, so the cap (14045) is much smaller as it does not have to cover the hood. I have all three lenses with hoods and caps and I am sure they are not interchangeable.

I am not sure about the Serie VIII-filter's size, but they certainly don't fit the Summicron. Series filters have no thread to screw them in, they are just hold by the hood. As the Summicron has a telescope inbuilt hood it cannot hold a Series filter! You certainly need filters with 48mm with an own thread to screw them in.

B+W and Heliopan still offer filters with 48mm https://fotomayrshop.de/uv-filter__O-48-mm

At least Heliopan also offers 48mm fllters for black and white.https://fotomayrshop.de/heliopan-sw-filter-1015-gelb-dunkel15-verguetet  

 

[hiphopopotamus]

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I think you were writing just as I was editing - appears to be confusion due to an error/ambiguity in the Leica pocket book - some other threads here shone a light on that!

But yes, e48 is the option I need. Thanks for the links, v helpful! 

Edited December 6, 2021 by hiphopopotamus

[UliWer]

Just another remark about the filters for the Telyt 1:4.5/20cm: 

They had a different design with the glass flat on top of the filter mount:

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Of course with 48mm they fit the Summicron, but perhaps it is not ideal as the filter protrudes:

Though this is just a cosmetical concern (touching on the filter glass...), they don't cause vignetting for the Summicron. ... and of course they are black, which does not look too good on the bright chrome of the Summicron.

Leitz offered 48mm Filters (UVa and yellow) with 48mm in silver at the Summicron's time; I think they were in the catalogue even later as the 1:2.8/28mm Elmarit (3rd. version) also needed them - though the later ones are black again. 

 

[pippy]

2 hours ago, UliWer said:

...Leitz offered 48mm Filters (UVa and yellow) with 48mm in silver at the Summicron's time; I think they were in the catalogue even later as the 1:2.8/28mm Elmarit (3rd. version) also needed them - though the later ones are black again...

If it might be of any interest to the OP at the moment there is one London dealership which has an E48 Orange / Chrome Rim Leitz filter for sale (no affiliation);

https://mwclassic.com/product/leitz-e48-screw-in-orange-filter-chrome-rim-makers-keeper-case/

...as well as having a 'thin-rim' Canon Skylight chrome-rim;

https://mwclassic.com/product/canon-48mm-screw-in-skylight-sl39-3c-filter-very-thin-chrome-rim-type/

...and a Canon Black-Rim;

https://mwclassic.com/product/canon-48mm-skylight-1x-filter-black-rim/

Philip.

Edited December 6, 2021 by pippy

[adan]

Most if not all of the Leica M lenses that took E48 filters came with slip-on external caps (felt-lined metal, or molded rubber/plastic).

And since the E48 filter size (on NEW gear) more or less faded away about 1980 (pointlessly close to E49), clip-on caps to fit the threads are hard to come by.

I believe the last Leica M lenses made as E48 - besides the big "stovepipe" 90 Summicron - were the 21 SA f/3.4 and 28mm Elmarits v.1/2. All replaced with new E49 or E55 or E60 designs in 1980±.

Until very recently, Kaiser Fototechnik (Germany) made an entire line of plastic slip-on caps, sized in 1mm-internal-diameter increments. I found a 61mm Kaiser cap that slid onto my E58 75mm Nokton lens perfectly. Unfortunately those seem to have been discontinued, but there may still be some in dealer's stocks, or auction sites.

https://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/

There is the option to get a 48mm-49mm filter step-up ring, and then use a modern E49 clip-on cap, from Leica or other companies. And if desired, much more common E49 filters.

I did approximately that with a Voigtländer 35mm Nokton f/1.4, which comes with an E43 filter thread (and a rather cheesy, low-tension clip-cap that immediately fell off) - I got a 43-46mm step-up ring, and now that lens wears a current Leica E46 clip-on cap.

Edited December 6, 2021 by adan

[hiphopopotamus]

Uli - first off, thanks hugely for taking the time to show me those photos, and the potential drawback of going for a filter cap on the Ib cron. I'll have a think about best way forward - likely filter for short term, but search for a reasonably priced cap will continue.

Philip - amazing, I haven't used mwclassic before, my usuals are red dot, aperture, peterloy, classiccamera - have you or others ordered from mwclassic and had good experiences before? There are a lot of very good value items in that webshop (orange filter included!).

Adan - thanks for the extra info, and for the link to kaiser, I will keep a close eye out in case they ever have a cron sized slip on cap (anyone know what that diameter would be to go over the hood?). The 48-49mm step up is exactly the short term solution I had settled on for now - one on ebay cost £4, and I found a company called Urth who were selling 49mm black aluminium screw on caps to keep filter fronts safe for £11 - I thought this would probably be the most cost effective, if a little ugly, solution until a cap reveals itself. 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, hiphopopotamus said:

...Philip...have you or others ordered from mwclassic and had good experiences before?...

PM sent so as not to derail the thread...

Philip.