Leica M Mount Lens to L Autofocus Adapter

[Fang]

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Just curious to find out if Leica has any intentions to produce  M mount lens to L Autofocus adapter.

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Fang
grammar error

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[sillbeers15]

2 minutes ago, Fang said:

Just curious to find out if Leica has any intentions to produce a M mount lens to L Autofocus adapter.

 

An AF M to L mount adapter can easily be produced by Leica as the adapter is simply a linear motor embedded movement mount.

[Simone_DF]

Very unlikely. Third party M mount autofocus adapters like the Techart Pro or the Fotodiox rely on PDAF to work. They are not even compatible with earlier generation Sonys with no PDAF like the A7 or A7II.

No PDAF = no autofocus for M lenses. 

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Very unlikely. Third party M mount autofocus adapters like the Techart Pro or the Fotodiox rely on PDAF to work. They are not even compatible with earlier generation Sonys with no PDAF like the A7 or A7II.

No PDAF = no autofocus for M lenses. 

DFD requires contrast data of specific lens to be imported into Leica & Panasonic cameras for DFD in CDAF to work ( that is why non L mount AF lenses can work with Leica & Panasonic cameras on AFC). Third party AF adapter makers have no access to Leica for M lens contrast data, therefore they can only make AF adapters for PDAF based cameras. For Leica since producing SL lenses is no problem for DFD based CDAF system, surely making such a AF adapter is a piece of cake. Only issue I see would be only limited to a few specified M lenses as the total M lenses database can be huge and fragmented. I am particularly keen to have an AF Noctilux working on the SL series even if it only means single AF only.

 

[BernardC]

6 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

For Leica since producing SL lenses is no problem for DFD based CDAF system, surely making such a AF adapter is a piece of cake. Only issue I see would be only limited to a few specified M lenses as the total M lenses database can be huge and fragmented. I am particularly keen to have an AF Noctilux working on the SL series even if it only means single AF only.

That's not the only issue. The adapter would provide very slow AF, simply because it has to move an entire lens weighing hundreds of grams instead of a small focusing group. It's also unlikely that it could provide the degree of parallelism that Leica would be comfortable with, especially with heavier lenses. It wouldn't work with any M lenses that have internal focus, so you'd have to pre-set the focus to the right range (close, mid, far).

 

[Simone_DF]

24 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

DFD requires contrast data of specific lens to be imported into Leica & Panasonic cameras for DFD in CDAF to work ( that is why non L mount AF lenses can work with Leica & Panasonic cameras on AFC). Third party AF adapter makers have no access to Leica for M lens contrast data, therefore they can only make AF adapters for PDAF based cameras. For Leica since producing SL lenses is no problem for DFD based CDAF system, surely making such a AF adapter is a piece of cake. Only issue I see would be only limited to a few specified M lenses as the total M lenses database can be huge and fragmented. I am particularly keen to have an AF Noctilux working on the SL series even if it only means single AF only.

You have a point, but a DFD only AF adapter would be too slow. One of the advantages of PDAF is the speed at which a subject is acquired, and a Sony with the Techart Pro is just ok-ish as long as speed is concerned. Remove it, and you'll have a very slow autofocus system. 

Remember that all these adapters do is move the lens body up and down, and nothing else. It's not the same as modern AF motors found in SL lenses. Another issue of this method is that Techart itself doesn't recommend to use its adapter for lenses over 500g of weight to avoid straining the motor, so I think the Noctilux is a no no.

The Techart Pro works really well for what it is, with some caveats, but I don't think performance would be acceptable for Leica or for any first party brand. 

[Photoworks]

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I would be happy to see one for Leica L, I don't care who makes it, maybe not fotodiox 

I have the Techart Pro on the Sony and it works surprisingly good even with the Noctilux. Eye af with Noctilux, just think about it.

I think the AF would be slow, but on par to manual focusing on L cameras. on those days where the eye site in not 100% it would come in handy..

I think the performance with lenses with flowing elements would not be optimized since you not adjusting focus on the lens. But you can set the M lens to 1M and get even closer with this adapter..

[sillbeers15]

All of your points are valid, based in what has been acheived by third party Techart so far perhaps what we can wish for is a dedicated AF adapter for a specific lens say for Noctilux 0.95 to be used on the SL2/S with face/body detection autofocus. I for sure would like to have that if it becomes available form Leica. 

[Pompo Bresciani]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:38 PM, Photoworks said:

I would be happy to see one for Leica L, I don't care who makes it, maybe not fotodiox 

I have the Techart Pro on the Sony and it works surprisingly good even with the Noctilux. Eye af with Noctilux, just think about it.

I think the AF would be slow, but on par to manual focusing on L cameras. on those days where the eye site in not 100% it would come in handy..

I think the performance with lenses with flowing elements would not be optimized since you not adjusting focus on the lens. But you can set the M lens to 1M and get even closer with this adapter..

Does it work well with Noctilux 50 0.95? Since I don't have a Leica body I was thinking in getting the Techart Pro on the Sony a9II and a7R IV, but does it work when the lens is wide open?

[Simone_DF]

10 hours ago, Pompo Bresciani said:

Does it work well with Noctilux 50 0.95? Since I don't have a Leica body I was thinking in getting the Techart Pro on the Sony a9II and a7R IV, but does it work when the lens is wide open?

Yes it does

[Pompo Bresciani]

10 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes it does

Great I just ordered it so I can use it on my Sonys. While I wait for a new M body with a stacked sensor=no rolling shutter!!!

[AKorenc]

I'd just like to "open up" this theme after a year ... What has happened since are two interesting (and kind of expected) developments; the first is Panasonic just went the PDAF route with their Lumix S5 II camera and the second is Techart released their second generation of Leica M to Nikon Z autofocus adapter - the TZM-02:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0246557047/techart-s-new-compact-leica-m-to-nikon-z-adapter-has-video-af-compatibility

Though it still works best with sub-500g lenses, it's just plain silly, how good this thing works with Nikon Z cameras; it now supports 3-axis in-camera stabilization, autofocusing during video, Eye-AF ... I mean these things are focusing much better than most Nikon DSLR lenses were focusing on enthusiast and semi-pro level cameras (say D200 and D300, D7100 and D7500 or D600, D610, D700 ...) just a decade+ ago ...

I must say I'm having high hopes and expectations for the near future of L-mount with PDAF ... fingers crossed

[Simone_DF]

Maybe dropping a line to Techart might push them to release a L mount version.

[sillbeers15]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Maybe dropping a line to Techart might push them to release a L mount version.

After seeing a review of the 2nd gen Leica M to Nikon Z Mount Techart AF adapter on a Noctilux M50mm mounted on a Z9 applying face detection demo and sample portrait head shots below by Mathphotographer, I am again tempted to ditch my SL2 and move on with the Z9. My other motivation is the new Nikon Z 800mm f6.3. It is light enough for handheld wildlife applications unlike many other superteles that are just too heavy to be agile.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by sillbeers15

[LD_50]

I don’t expect Leica would develop an adapter that doesn’t account for floating elements in the focus group of many of their lenses. The only way to properly focus these lenses is to move the focus ring on the lens. Moving the entire mount back and forth (as proposed and as done by Techart) doesn’t activate the floating elements as designed. 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, LD_50 said:

I don’t expect Leica would develop an adapter that doesn’t account for floating elements in the focus group of many of their lenses. The only way to properly focus these lenses is to move the focus ring on the lens. Moving the entire mount back and forth (as proposed and as done by Techart) doesn’t activate the floating elements as designed. 

I thought so, too. But based on the demo video on face detection AF and sample photos all looks good. To me what matters is the result. Rather I’m unsure about accepting the oversaturated colours produced by Nikon sensor/processor at times that could be altered post process.

[Simone_DF]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

After seeing a review of the 2nd gen Leica M to Nikon Z Mount Techart AF adapter on a Noctilux M50mm mounted on a Z9 applying face detection demo and sample portrait head shots below by Mathphotographer, I am again tempted to ditch my SL2 and move on with the Z9. My other motivation is the new Nikon Z 800mm f6.3. It is light enough for handheld wildlife applications unlike many other superteles that are just too heavy to be agile.

I'm not sure how useful it is for wildlife, to be honest. When I used the first version on my A7III a couple of years ago, the adapter was very good at focusing and nailing the eyes even wide open at 1.4, and for moderately moving subjects. I used it for shots of moving people (not sport) and they were perfectly in focus too. 

One limitation is the focus area. In the centre you get fast and accurate focus, but the more you move the focus point toward the edges, the harder it struggles. At the very edges it was hard to acquire focus, although it's a small inconvenience for my personal use case. This is for version 1 of the adapter. Maybe version 2 has improved things.

[Simone_DF]

7 hours ago, LD_50 said:

I don’t expect Leica would develop an adapter that doesn’t account for floating elements in the focus group of many of their lenses. The only way to properly focus these lenses is to move the focus ring on the lens. Moving the entire mount back and forth (as proposed and as done by Techart) doesn’t activate the floating elements as designed. 

You have two options: roughly prefocus the lens manually and let the adapter fine tune focus, or use lenses without a floating element, there's plenty of them

Third option: accept a minimal loss of image quality. Depending on what you're shooting, you most likely won't even notice it (think portraits for example)

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[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

I'm not sure how useful it is for wildlife, to be honest. When I used the first version on my A7III a couple of years ago, the adapter was very good at focusing and nailing the eyes even wide open at 1.4, and for moderately moving subjects. I used it for shots of moving people (not sport) and they were perfectly in focus too. 

One limitation is the focus area. In the centre you get fast and accurate focus, but the more you move the focus point toward the edges, the harder it struggles. At the very edges it was hard to acquire focus, although it's a small inconvenience for my personal use case. This is for version 1 of the adapter. Maybe version 2 has improved things.

I’m looking at the AF adapter just over the application on my M0.95 Noctilux and M21 summilux on portraits application. As for wildlife, I’m impressed by the new Z 800mm f6.3 on the Z9. As for the Z9,, even through I do hesitate over Nikon color and menu, I must admit it is a damn impressive mirrorless camera using only electronic shutter without panning distortion due to it’s high readout speed. It is just light years ahead of its competitors not to mention SL2 comparison.

[LD_50]

18 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

You have two options: roughly prefocus the lens manually and let the adapter fine tune focus, or use lenses without a floating element, there's plenty of them

Third option: accept a minimal loss of image quality. Depending on what you're shooting, you most likely won't even notice it (think portraits for example)

My point was it’s not likely Leica would produce an adapter that does not operate the floating elements. The reason for the added complexity in these lenses is the improved IQ.