Who has switched from the MD-262 to an M10 and regretted it? Or are you happy with the switch?

[bcapphoto]

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I shoot portraits and everyday documentary work of our kids. I shoot in indoor low-light often (ISO 3200 and above) as I have all f/2 lenses. 
 

I’m thinking of moving from my MD-262 to an M10. But I’m nervous because I’d be doing a trade (plus cash) so I couldn’t undo it if I’m not happy haha. 
 

Here’s how I see it …

 

Pros

- Better low-light handling 

- Slimmer body

- Rear LCD for confirmation 

- Better viewfinder (I wear glasses)

 

Cons

- I lose the screenless shooting

- Worse battery life

 

what else am I missing? Is it worth the switch? Who’s made the switch and been happy with it? Or who’s made the switch and regretted it?

Edited August 24, 2021 by bcapphoto
Added 1 “pro” for the VF that I forgot

[Photon42]

It really depends how important the MD experience is for you. Battery life is worse with the M10 versus the MD262, but in my eyes it does not really matter in real world situations. Just buy one more battery and you will be fine. The M10 is better in every regard other than the experience (personal) and the looks / feeling of the camera (personal). I loved the MD's black paint, but well.

If I would shoot portraits with the M, I would think an LCD screen does help. On one side it is helpful for checking exposure and focus (without the need of a energy hogging WLAN connection) and on the other side to show results to the subject. You are also able to frame precisely with the LCD and, preferably, with the Visoflex, which can be useful at times.

 

[a.noctilux]

Hello I see and use these two as two different 'mindset'.

 

Strange enough, I have the M10 (early 2017) when I bought second hand M-D 262 (late 2017), as price went down to 'acceptable- for me, and a bit 'upset' by M10.

I still use them happily and never want to sell one of them.

I know this would not help much.

Just to say that each needs different 'mindset'.

 

[bcapphoto]

3 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

It really depends how important the MD experience is for you. Battery life is worse with the M10 versus the MD262, but in my eyes it does not really matter in real world situations. Just buy one more battery and you will be fine. The M10 is better in every regard other than the experience (personal) and the looks / feeling of the camera (personal). I loved the MD's black paint, but well.

If I would shoot portraits with the M, I would think an LCD screen does help. On one side it is helpful for checking exposure and focus (without the need of a energy hogging WLAN connection) and on the other side to show results to the subject. You are also able to frame precisely with the LCD and, preferably, with the Visoflex, which can be useful at times.

 

Interestingly, I also shoot a lot on film. So not having the “look at this” or confirmation on the back of the screen doesn’t bother me too much. And I don’t use the LCD or EVF for shooting on my Leica, I have Fuji gear for when I need that. 
 

Did I just further justify my MD-262? 🤔🤔🤔 haha

[bcapphoto]

2 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello I see and use these two as two different 'mindset'.

 

Strange enough, I have the M10 (early 2017) when I bought second hand M-D 262 (late 2017), as price went down to 'acceptable- for me, and a bit 'upset' by M10.

I still use them happily and never want to sell one of them.

I know this would not help much.

Just to say that each needs different 'mindset'.

 

Curious - what makes you want to pull out your MD over your M10? And vice-versa?

[a.noctilux]

As the net results are mostly the same (24 Mpix on M246/240/262/M-D), this is enough for me since some years now.

M10 is nice to use but other Ms are just as nice to 3200ISO which I rarely use anyway.

I did not say yet that I have other mindsets , monochrom, film use, etc.

To side answer , I don't know (or planned to take one type of mindset),

 😌 I'm only amateur, photography for me is not 'serious affair', I'd say 'flip a dice' for each choice of six (or more) mindsets would be the right word.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by a.noctilux

[poli]

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Did a slightly different thing, but my experiences might help you. I switched from the M-D to an M10-D. It was a bit a spur for the moment kind of thing and I did a trade incl cash. After about 6 months I had some small regrets. Not that I was not happy with the M10-D, quite the contrary, and the pros you mention (except for the screen  ) all apply. My regrets were on my feeling that the differences seemed small and not really worth the money.

Then a year later I borrowed an M246 for a weekend. And to be honest, in that weekend for me it confirmed that the M10-D was a step up from the MD 262. In retrospect I discovered the pros indeed were larger (for me personally) than I thought. I really prefer the slimmer body, the better viewfinder and another typical M10-D characteristic (faux lever). The better ISO performance is a plus too, but in real life not a game changer. That also counts the other way around regarding battery life. The M-D has better battery life, but in using the M10-D it is not an issue. Mostly I get by with one battery anyway. I think all these things will also count for the regular M10 (except for the screen less thing...). So if you trade, I advise you to do it enjoy it and don't look back. 

[bcapphoto]

27 minutes ago, poli said:

Did a slightly different thing, but my experiences might help you. I switched from the M-D to an M10-D. It was a bit a spur for the moment kind of thing and I did a trade incl cash. After about 6 months I had some small regrets. Not that I was not happy with the M10-D, quite the contrary, and the pros you mention (except for the screen  ) all apply. My regrets were on my feeling that the differences seemed small and not really worth the money.

Then a year later I borrowed an M246 for a weekend. And to be honest, in that weekend for me it confirmed that the M10-D was a step up from the MD 262. In retrospect I discovered the pros indeed were larger (for me personally) than I thought. I really prefer the slimmer body, the better viewfinder and another typical M10-D characteristic (faux lever). The better ISO performance is a plus too, but in real life not a game changer. That also counts the other way around regarding battery life. The M-D has better battery life, but in using the M10-D it is not an issue. Mostly I get by with one battery anyway. I think all these things will also count for the regular M10 (except for the screen less thing...). So if you trade, I advise you to do it enjoy it and don't look back. 

Borrowing the M246 (monochrom) made you realize how great the M10D was? I have the M246 - it's a stellar performer, and from what I can tell, offers at least 1-2 stops improved ISO handling in low-light. Did you find otherwise? 

[poli]

6 minutes ago, bcapphoto said:

Borrowing the M246 (monochrom) made you realize how great the M10D was? I have the M246 - it's a stellar performer, and from what I can tell, offers at least 1-2 stops improved ISO handling in low-light. Did you find otherwise? 

Yes, but not regarding the results, I am really talking about the handling (slimmer body and better viewfinder). To me the M246 felt less comfortable to use. So it made me realize I was happy with my choice after all. The BW results of the M246 are great.

BTW: Low light handling of the M10-D is better than the MD 262. 

[bcapphoto]

1 minute ago, poli said:

Yes, but not regarding the results, I am really talking about the handling (slimmer body and better viewfinder). To me the M246 felt less comfortable to use. So it made me realize I was happy with my choice after all. The BW results of the M246 are great.

BTW: Low light handling of the M10-D is better than the MD 262. 

If you had to guess - how many stops? Is ~ 2 stops accurate? How do you find the extra “features” of the M10D (wifi, etc.) a distraction at all?

[poli]

1 minute ago, bcapphoto said:

If you had to guess - how many stops? Is ~ 2 stops accurate? How do you find the extra “features” of the M10D (wifi, etc.) a distraction at all?

My guess would be about 2 stops. But I almost never shoot above 6400. 

The WIFI is not a distraction to me. On rare studio shoots I do (m10-d is my only camera) I use the WIFI with a tablet for quick checks with subjects. But if that would be a large part of your usage I would not opt for the M10-d and definitely go for a regular M10 or M10P. 

The EVF is no distraction, but a useful feature in rare occasions as well. But 9 out of 10 times I stick to using the rangefinderwindow. 

Exposure compensation button on the back I almost never use. 

The lever is a plus for me, esp when shooting with a pre -asph 90mm summicron.  

 

[grahamc]

Nor sure if this is helpful Brian but as you may know from other threads I recently “accidentally” ended up with both m10-D and md-262.  I mean I know these things don’t happen by accident but I bought m10-D mostly out of curiosity because one came up mint locally with 14 days no-questions-asked return policy. Of course when it had arrived I didn’t want to lose either camera so now I have 2 D’s, for now. 
 

But on to my observations, whether they are relevant to your position and the standard ‘m10’ or not :

- MD-262 cosmetic finish is of course more ‘beautiful’ especially at first look however I’ve grown to really like my 10D ... they are different but it’s more like a tank and a more forgiving finish 

- I absolutely prefer the thinner 10 form factor 

- the shutter on 10D is noticeably nicer to use IMO. as you know the d-262 is nice too but the 10D is extremely stealthy and smooth (although same as 10P not standard 10)

- battery life in 262 is far far superior

- on/off switch of 262 is so convenient and natural to flick it off after use. I keep leaving my 10 on by accident and then the battery drains (see previous point )

- I honestly can’t see any difference in RAWs or colours. 

- I like the faux lever of the 10 and use it as a thin rest in portrait format (not relevant to standard 10 I guess)

- I used a half case with the d-262 but don’t feel the need to with m10D (more industrial / tank-like finish ). This adds to perceived size difference but is personal I guess 

- viewfinder I actually find 262 more convenient for a glasses wearer - I see framelines better as my day to day carry is a 35mm   

this left me with a really hard decision which one to let go (if I can bring myself to do so) but overall I think the thinner form factor of the 10 gives it the edge for me personally , I just find it’s a more appealing size to reach for when leaving the house.  Mainly I take my cameras when i go for a jog in the morning and it just seems more convenient even though I know it’s only a few mm difference In width 🤔
 

In terms of your own decision I certainly wouldn’t base it on the RAWs or IQ because differences are insignificant IMO  

Hope this helps even though all info is not the 10 that you requested 

 

[mmradman]

As M246 was mentioned i pricked my ears, plus just finished eating an apple - as in fruit.

I kind of see where fascination with M10 bodies comes from, it is similar to film M bodies but to hold M camera comfortably you need some sort of a crutch, reason why M10D is fitted with faux film advance leaver, unless there is other more mundane reason - to fool people around.  Also reason why half cases and various grips do roaring trade, not to mention oversized fluffy wide straps  etc.

I prefer using my M246 with Leica grip.  The difference about VF, M10 returned to film M standard magnification of 0.72x from slightly wider 0.62 [or 0.64 form memory] that was on M9/M240 models.

[Photon42]

The EVF on the M10D is very useful, as long as you don't need to trigger a flash. Leica in their eternal wisdom has chosen to not add a PC plug to it. The whole Fotos "integration" became. better, but for studio purposes I think it is too clumsy and power hungry. Not surprisingly, any normal M10P/R is the more flexible machine. Alone for the body shape, sensor and increased rangefinder, I would chose an M10 (whatever) over any M 2xx.

[grahamc]

Just a another thought - by far the most relevant differences (for me anyway) were the form factor and the shutter. 

interestingly , I was sure was going to send the 10D back until I took it out for a shoot and just loved the shutter (and size) out “in the wild”

so if you are tempted to trade for a screen 10 then maybe consider the P

Of course letting a d-262 go is a big call 

[poli]

2 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Just a another thought - by far the most relevant differences (for me anyway) were the form factor and the shutter. 

interestingly , I was sure was going to send the 10D back until I took it out for a shoot and just loved the shutter (and size) out “in the wild”

so if you are tempted to trade for a screen 10 then maybe consider the P

Of course letting a d-262 go is a big call 

+1 regarding shutter! And also if you chose for a screen m10, I would also prefer the P. 

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, mmradman said:

  The difference about VF, M10 returned to film M standard magnification of 0.72x from slightly wider 0.62 [or 0.64 form memory] that was on M9/M240 models.

M240 is .68x; M10 is .73x, with larger diameter opening and greater eye relief.

Jeff

[grahamc]

2 minutes ago, poli said:

+1 regarding shutter! And also if you chose for a screen m10, I would also prefer the P. 

Agree.  Honestly that was the real clincher once I started using it on the test run.  I was like “ah sheesh this is a problem”

coz I LOVE my d262

[grahamc]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

M240 is .68x; M10 is .73x, with larger diameter opening and greater eye relief.

Jeff

Not wanting to send the thread on a tangent but what is meant by eye relief ? I always wondered and never sought clarification. Does it just mean greater magnification (ie your eyes aren’t straining?) 

sorry if this is obvious team

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, grahamc said:

Not wanting to send the thread on a tangent but what is meant by eye relief ? I always wondered and never sought clarification. Does it just mean greater magnification (ie your eyes aren’t straining?) 

sorry if this is obvious team

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_relief
 

Jeff