[Opinion] The M10. Three Months In...

[Adam Bonn]

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Firstly, apologies for this - I've not much to say, but no doubt will take quite a while (and words) to do so!

I came to Leica in 2017, I'd long fancied an M9 but it was a big outlay financially.

They announced that they'd be ceasing the free sensor replacement which I figured wouldn't help them get any cheaper (if they'd had the new sensor) and wouldn't make them a safe bet if they hadn't. So the time was now (well then, aw you get what I mean)

A low mileage official dealer supplied example came up at the right time and as they say on forums such as this I pulled the trigger

Now truth be told I expected to use the M9 a bit like a classic sports' car (not that I own one) - sunny Sunday drives down country lanes, with a modern practical car for everyday.

Long story short, I quickly became seduced by using a rangefinder, the cerebral challenges of a simple camera, and well boy meets Leica M - a story as old as the hills.

My other brand cameras were relegated to the gear cupboard and the M9 and I partied like it was 2009

Of course the M9 does have some limitations, and I found myself wanting and needing something a little more modern for certain things.

Enter the M240.

I bought this camera because it was comparatively cheap, and had more ISO which I needed.

Whereas I quite liked the 240, I never loved it.

I found it quite hard work. Sure it performed better than the M9 with DR and ISO and I was glad of that. But the files needed more work in post, the camera was less nice in the hand and well.. we got on well enough but but it wasn't love

I decided to see what the M11 did to M10 prices on the used market.

About a month later my local AD got a secondhand M10 in, factory refurbished with new top and bottom plates (I don't want to know why it needed those....), the so important to me, warranty and at a price that was merely excruciating rather than terminal.

I bounced into the store as they opened and...

...no M10

Sold?

Nope - reserved for someone.

You'll have to wait a week to see if I can sell to you

It was a long week, that ended with a mad dash across the city to catch the store before closing. (Guy it was reserved for ended up buying a new m10R instead)

I had a couple of DMs from folks asking about the whole M9/240/M10 comparison thing (which I've replied too), so that's not really what this missive is and besides that's all been done before I think?

Also of course the early and mid adopters of the M10 have already shared their reviews and thoughts, so possibly I've little to add of value.

But that said!

I'm really very happy with the M10!

My first concern was the reduced battery life compared to the 240.. well it is less, but as I'm not much of a chimper, tend to switch my camera off between shots, don't own the EVF, seldom use live view and can't be bothered to install the phone app thing = my battery life is great 😁

Usually about 650-750 shots.

The headline feature of the M10 is that it's thinner.

I'm genuinely surprised at how much I notice this and how much better it feels in my hand than the 240 (I have small hands) - of course the weight distribution helps here too, the M10 has better balance than the 240 (less front heavy, and mass concentrated into a smaller area feels more nimble, it's a technique used in sports motorcycle design)

The next headline feature (I guess) is the improved viewfinder.

I didn't notice this in the store, but it's tangibly bigger and easier to use. I don't wear glasses, but I do wear sun glasses a lot and it's a lot nicer to use wearing them, 35mm framelines work better for me too.

But I guess the key upgrade reason was the ISO improvements and what the internet seems to have dubbed the colour science

Lets start with the ISO. This is easy. Yeah it's a ton better. And not just more ISO less noise better, but more exposure push in post, image doesn't end up with more banding than a field of Zebras better. Massive score IMO

Re colours.. well when I go through my LR catalogue thumbnails it's not always completely obvious if I'm looking at a M10 or 240 shot... the colours are not poles apart, but I find the M10 DNGs nicer to work on, there's a lot of pleasing (to me) pop and contrast and bite from the off. Skins tones of the people I shoot look better to me (and them) too.

In fact a custom DCP and a preset with a little contrast gets me most of the way there during DNG import, personally (OMMV) I found the 240 images were a lot more case by case with different images needing quite separate types of work to get what I liked.

This was the main thing I missed from the M9 (which I still have) with the 240. It was just how the M9 images usually arrived pretty close to being usable (or completely useless), whereas always the 240 demanded work

(obviously YMMV, you may use different tools or the same tools in a better way)

In fact I've little to complain about with the M10 (well the price 🙄) and of course all the things that you've read on here already, the too stiff to lift ISO dial, the missing (for me, YMMV) cont/timed modes on the power switch (especially as timed isn't retained if you power off) - menu diving isn't what I associate with Leica...

There's only really one fly in my personal M10 ointment (which I knew about before I bought it, not complaining too heavily, honest)

Who's clucking bright idea was it too make base ISO inaccessible?

WTAF?

As you all know, you face a choice ISO 100 and don't dare clip a highlight or ISO 200 and hope the shadows aren't too murky if you need to recover them heavily

Which, to me at least, makes ISO selection important for scenes where frankly it should be set base and forget

(a colour RAW histogram might help here too...)

But I can't stress enough... the camera is a tool, they all have foibles and we need to learn to use them to get what we want. 

So in some sort of summary

The M10 compared to the M9.

There's only one M9. The M10 isn't like an M9 v2.0 or something. It's just closer than the 240 was. The M9 colours are great and everything, but for me the M9 magic is the tonality, the glowing colours and airy light pictures. 

The M10 compared to the M240

On paper there's very little in it, but sincerely all those little improvements really do add up. The IQ is tangibly better, the ISO is far more usable, and it's just a nicer object to hold and use. (Which is important, cars get bought cos of the spec - they get sold if they're uncomfortable to drive)

The M10 compared to the M11

ahahaha just messing - ask Jono or someone 

And that's the thing...

Soon enough arrives the M11

Many here will get one, and I guess some you will use the opportunity to get an M10...

Getting a camera that's not a current model has more than just price benefits... the firmware is mature, manufacturing bugs should be eliminated and the forums are full of tips and tricks for getting the most out of it written by people that have shot with one for some years

If you've sat on the fence about the M10 and are figuring that now might be the time to jump, well I sincerely believe that you'll be happy with it.

I know I am

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

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[ianman]

An interesting read. Thanks for sharing your insights and experience.

[charles tay]

I am on the fence if I wish to own a M10 and this review comes in timely. 

[Adam Bonn]

13 hours ago, charles tay said:

I am on the fence if I wish to own a M10 and this review comes in timely. 

For me (OMMV) the M10 has been a camera that I've grown to like more and more.

Typically (for me) cameras start off being the best thing ever, then slip a bit as time wears on

As an analogy... sometimes when I first hear an album it's the up tempo track that most grabs me, but after some listens the track that wasn't so immediate to my ear becomes my fav.

The M10 is like this for me!

[Guest]

I got my (silver) M10 four months ago, 16 years after entering the Leica M system with a (silver) MP.  My first digital M. Bought it second hand but unused for a good price from a reputable dealer. Could not be happier! So happy to finally have a rangefinder camera again for digital photography. Familiar territory, at last. I like my Nikon D500 and Leica CL cameras but the M10 is my preferred choice in 9/10 cases. 

[charles tay]

20 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

Firstly, apologies for this - I've not much to say, but no doubt will take quite a while (and words) to do so!

I came to Leica in 2017, I'd long fancied an M9 but it was a big outlay financially.

They announced that they'd be ceasing the free sensor replacement which I figured wouldn't help them get any cheaper (if they'd had the new sensor) and wouldn't make them a safe bet if they hadn't. So the time was now (well then, aw you get what I mean)

A low mileage official dealer supplied example came up at the right time and as they say on forums such as this I pulled the trigger

Now truth be told I expected to use the M9 a bit like a classic sports' car (not that I own one) - sunny Sunday drives down country lanes, with a modern practical car for everyday.

Long story short, I quickly became seduced by using a rangefinder, the cerebral challenges of a simple camera, and well boy meets Leica M - a story as old as the hills.

My other brand cameras were relegated to the gear cupboard and the M9 and I partied like it was 2009

Of course the M9 does have some limitations, and I found myself wanting and needing something a little more modern for certain things.

Enter the M240.

I bought this camera because it was comparatively cheap, and had more ISO which I needed.

Whereas I quite liked the 240, I never loved it.

I found it quite hard work. Sure it performed better than the M9 with DR and ISO and I was glad of that. But the files needed more work in post, the camera was less nice in the hand and well.. we got on well enough but but it wasn't love

I decided to see what the M11 did to M10 prices on the used market.

About a month later my local AD got a secondhand M10 in, factory refurbished with new top and bottom plates (I don't want to know why it needed those....), the so important to me, warranty and at a price that was merely excruciating rather than terminal.

I bounced into the store as they opened and...

...no M10

Sold?

Nope - reserved for someone.

You'll have to wait a week to see if I can sell to you

It was a long week, that ended with a mad dash across the city to catch the store before closing. (Guy it was reserved for ended up buying a new m10R instead)

I had a couple of DMs from folks asking about the whole M9/240/M10 comparison thing (which I've replied too), so that's not really what this missive is and besides that's all been done before I think?

Also of course the early and mid adopters of the M10 have already shared their reviews and thoughts, so possibly I've little to add of value.

But that said!

I'm really very happy with the M10!

My first concern was the reduced battery life compared to the 240.. well it is less, but as I'm not much of a chimper, tend to switch my camera off between shots, don't own the EVF, seldom use live view and can't be bothered to install the phone app thing = my battery life is great 😁

Usually about 650-750 shots.

The headline feature of the M10 is that it's thinner.

I'm genuinely surprised at how much I notice this and how much better it feels in my hand than the 240 (I have small hands) - of course the weight distribution helps here too, the M10 has better balance than the 240 (less front heavy, and mass concentrated into a smaller area feels more nimble, it's a technique used in sports motorcycle design)

The next headline feature (I guess) is the improved viewfinder.

I didn't notice this in the store, but it's tangibly bigger and easier to use. I don't wear glasses, but I do wear sun glasses a lot and it's a lot nicer to use wearing them, 35mm framelines work better for me too.

But I guess the key upgrade reason was the ISO improvements and what the internet seems to have dubbed the colour science

Lets start with the ISO. This is easy. Yeah it's a ton better. And not just more ISO less noise better, but more exposure push in post, image doesn't end up with more banding than a field of Zebras better. Massive score IMO

Re colours.. well when I go through my LR catalogue thumbnails it's not always completely obvious if I'm looking at a M10 or 240 shot... the colours are not poles apart, but I find the M10 DNGs nicer to work on, there's a lot of pleasing (to me) pop and contrast and bite from the off. Skins tones of the people I shoot look better to me (and them) too.

In fact a custom DCP and a preset with a little contrast gets me most of the way there during DNG import, personally (OMMV) I found the 240 images were a lot more case by case with different images needing quite separate types of work to get what I liked.

This was the main thing I missed from the M9 (which I still have) with the 240. It was just how the M9 images usually arrived pretty close to being usable (or completely useless), whereas always the 240 demanded work

(obviously YMMV, you may use different tools or the same tools in a better way)

In fact I've little to complain about with the M10 (well the price 🙄) and of course all the things that you've read on here already, the too stiff to lift ISO dial, the missing (for me, YMMV) cont/timed modes on the power switch (especially as timed isn't retained if you power off) - menu diving isn't what I associate with Leica...

There's only really one fly in my personal M10 ointment (which I knew about before I bought it, not complaining too heavily, honest)

Who's clucking bright idea was it too make base ISO inaccessible?

WTAF?

As you all know, you face a choice ISO 100 and don't dare clip a highlight or ISO 200 and hope the shadows aren't too murky if you need to recover them heavily

Which, to me at least, makes ISO selection important for scenes where frankly it should be set base and forget

(a colour RAW histogram might help here too...)

But I can't stress enough... the camera is a tool, they all have foibles and we need to learn to use them to get what we want. 

So in some sort of summary

The M10 compared to the M9.

There's only one M9. The M10 isn't like an M9 v2.0 or something. It's just closer than the 240 was. The M9 colours are great and everything, but for me the M9 magic is the tonality, the glowing colours and airy light pictures. 

The M10 compared to the M240

On paper there's very little in it, but sincerely all those little improvements really do add up. The IQ is tangibly better, the ISO is far more usable, and it's just a nicer object to hold and use. (Which is important, cars get bought cos of the spec - they get sold if they're uncomfortable to drive)

The M10 compared to the M11

ahahaha just messing - ask Jono or someone 

And that's the thing...

Soon enough arrives the M11

Many here will get one, and I guess some you will use the opportunity to get an M10...

Getting a camera that's not a current model has more than just price benefits... the firmware is mature, manufacturing bugs should be eliminated and the forums are full of tips and tricks for getting the most out of it written by people that have shot with one for some years

If you've sat on the fence about the M10 and are figuring that now might be the time to jump, well I sincerely believe that you'll be happy with it.

I know I am

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

Just curious... did you not consider SL2 or SL2-S with superior sensor over M10. Why M10 over SL models?

I tried M10 Pre loved unit + M Lens and SL2-S with M Lens. I love the SL2-S technology but the size is a turn off. So i am hovering between M10 w M lens or Sl2-S with M Lens. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by charles tay

[Adam Bonn]

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5 hours ago, charles tay said:

Just curious... did you not consider SL2 or SL2-S with superior sensor over M10. Why M10 over SL models?

I tried M10 Pre loved unit + M Lens and SL2-S with M Lens. I love the SL2-S technology but the size is a turn off. So i am hovering between M10 w M lens or Sl2-S with M Lens. 

I didn't seriously consider it to be honest

I knew I'd be keeping the M9 so I wanted to stick with an M to keep things simple, also (as you say) there's the SL size which I didn't like and I suspect that although M glass performs better on an SL than it does on a Sony or whatever, that M lenses probably work best on an M and I didn't want to temptation of feeling I ought too just get an L lens or two when I'm relatively well served by the M mount glass I already own

[rsh]

11 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

For me (OMMV) the M10 has been a camera that I've grown to like more and more.

Typically (for me) cameras start off being the best thing ever, then slip a bit as time wears on

As an analogy... sometimes when I first hear an album it's the up tempo track that most grabs me, but after some listens the track that wasn't so immediate to my ear becomes my fav.

The M10 is like this for me!

The first time I listened to “Music To Eat”, I thought, “What the hell?”  It has grown on me, but then I am a fan of the late Col. Bruce Hampton.

[Printmaker]

10 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

I didn't seriously consider it to be honest

I knew I'd be keeping the M9 so I wanted to stick with an M to keep things simple, also (as you say) there's the SL size which I didn't like and I suspect that although M glass performs better on an SL than it does on a Sony or whatever, that M lenses probably work best on an M and I didn't want to temptation of feeling I ought too just get an L lens or two when I'm relatively well served by the M mount glass I already own

About a year ago I traded my M9M for a SL. It was a hard decision as that Monochrom was a wonderful camera. But after replacing sensors on three CCD Leica cameras, I knew I had an expensive time bomb in my bag. And I had an itch to do some video work. So it had to go. After a year, I still miss the Monochrom but the SL pairs so nicely with my 75 Summicron and 21 SEM lenses. My M10 remains my favorite camera but it sure is nice to have a Leica that uses my current M lenses, and gets the shots that are difficult for a rangefinder camera. And there is the back-up issue, of course.

[grahamc]

Glad to hear you are enjoying it . I am a recent M10 (D) purchaser coming from the 262  - I love the form factor of the 10.    I'll need to sit out the 11 having purchased the 10 variant so close to release, but I did it with full intention of keeping the camera for many years - I'll be happy for sure ... I love it 

Edited August 6, 2021 by grahamc

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, Printmaker said:

But after replacing sensors on three CCD Leica cameras, I knew I had an expensive time bomb in my bag. And I had an itch to do some video work. So it had to go. After a year, I still miss the Monochrom 

If you ever change your mind, you can feel reasonably secure (to same degree as any M) about an M9M that has had the ‘permanent’ sensor replacement and service by Leica.  Good dealers like Leica Miami sell them only that way, sometimes with Leica warranty in addition to store warranty.  That’s how I bought my mint M9M, still here despite adding an M10M, more for nostalgia than practical results.

Jeff

[Adam Bonn]

6 hours ago, Printmaker said:

About a year ago I traded my M9M for a SL. It was a hard decision as that Monochrom was a wonderful camera. But after replacing sensors on three CCD Leica cameras, I knew I had an expensive time bomb in my bag. And I had an itch to do some video work. So it had to go. After a year, I still miss the Monochrom but the SL pairs so nicely with my 75 Summicron and 21 SEM lenses. My M10 remains my favorite camera but it sure is nice to have a Leica that uses my current M lenses, and gets the shots that are difficult for a rangefinder camera. And there is the back-up issue, of course.

well if funds permitted I could probably justify owning both M10 and a SL variant, but I could only have one and I picked the M10 (the M9 is off the table for being sold, I love that camera - I wanted it for a long time before I was able to get one and I have great memories with it, even if doesn't get used as much as it once did)

[Printmaker]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:07 AM, Jeff S said:

If you ever change your mind, you can feel reasonably secure (to same degree as any M) about an M9M that has had the ‘permanent’ sensor replacement and service by Leica.  Good dealers like Leica Miami sell them only that way, sometimes with Leica warranty in addition to store warranty.  That’s how I bought my mint M9M, still here despite adding an M10M, more for nostalgia than practical results.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. I'm sure I'll add a M10M to the stable when the M11M is released. I do like everything about the M10 body but the price tag. $5k is my budget for M bodies and, between the pandemic and remodeling a house, I'm spending more time with a hammer than a camera. Were I to get another M9M right now, it would probably sit unused for months. 

[Jeff S]

A nice M9M, with new sensor,  can still be found under $4k. But mine is sitting unused since getting the M10M, a sweet machine. 
 

Jeff

[charles tay]

After reading this thread, I am still sitting on the fence if i should get a pre-loved M10 unit. But i feel if i do i wont regret since it is still a relevant leica camera in 2021. 

[microview]

For some reason I didn't  bond with the M10 and went back to an M262. But the touch screen and increased res tempted me to buy the M10R. It's a pleasure to use, the new VC 35/50 APO-Lanthars are excellent, and the only dislike are those rangefinder frame lines (same with all Ms....). To focus/see framing properly would mean a further £460 for the 020 EVF and I am hesitating about this. I know many say the virtue of the framelines is that you can see beyond your framing, but for 90mm, say, that tiny little rectangle is not good! Whatever the ’11 might feature, I will be sticking with the 10R. [Famous last words???]

Edited August 10, 2021 by microview

[charles tay]

12 minutes ago, microview said:

For some reason I didn't  bond with the M10 and went back to an M262. But the touch screen and increased res tempted me to buy the M10R. It's a pleasure to use, the new VC 35/50 APO-Lanthars are excellent, and the only dislike are those rangefinder frame lines (same with all Ms....). To focus/see framing properly would mean a further £460 for the 020 EVF and I am hesitating about this. I know many say the virtue of the framelines is that you can see beyond your framing, but for 90mm, say, that tiny little rectangle is not good! Whatever the ’11 might feature, I will be sticking with the 10R. [Famous last words???]

You moved from M262 to M10 and back to M262 and now you are with M10-R. How you feel the difference between M10 vs M10-R based on your personal usage.

[microview]

Coming to the basic M10 when released I disliked that ISO dial.lift-up knob: the 10R has this too, of course, but as I said above the touch screen (like that on my Q2) is fun albeit unnecessary, also pich to enlarge on playback. The shutter sound is not as silent as some have suggested but it's a reassuringly solid kind of a 'clunk'. I have not tried much low light photography and the 47MP increases the risk of blurred images vs 24MP.

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Hallo,

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, microview said:

Coming to the basic M10 when released I disliked that ISO dial.lift-up knob: the 10R has this too, of course, but as I said above the touch screen (like that on my Q2) is fun albeit unnecessary, also pich to enlarge on playback. The shutter sound is not as silent as some have suggested but it's a reassuringly solid kind of a 'clunk'. I have not tried much low light photography and the 47MP increases the risk of blurred images vs 24MP.

So, no obvious reason you presumably have bonded with the M10-R, but not with the M10?

Jeff

[charles tay]

Later i will drop by the Leica Shop to get a Pre-Loved M10.... hope i dont regret.