Help me appease my wife

[SoCalLeicanator]

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This might be heresy, but what do we say to a spouse who sends this link to us when we announce plans to get a Q2?  It's a pretty good chunk of change and we have agreed to "approve" each other's purchases over the years.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2020-06-leica-versus-iphone-versus-canon-versus-fuji.htm

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[falcon468]

Everything looks good in bright lighting. I thing the Q gives greater option too. 

[jaapv]

To my eyes the Q2 is far superior, a bit like a real fruit against synthetic flavouring , even on a smallish Macbook Air; he should try a decent size print.  Just noticed he uses obsolete processing too - CS6 cannot hold a candle to PS CC 2021. Vintage Ken Rockwell. 🙄

Disclosure, I have the iPhone 11 Pro and quite like the camera, but I would never use it seriously if I had an alternative.

[Gelatino]

Get the Q2, and buy her an iphone, and when you will compare your pictures she will be happy to hear that her pictures are better than yours.😜

[SoCalLeicanator]

That was my gut feeling as well. Thanks to all.  

[iRandom]

It's hard to justify when someone is just looking at the cost. Especially when they are looking at shots taken in good light. For me, a big part of continuing to use a dedicated camera in addition to a phone is the experience. I can get a great shot with a phone, but it just isn't as enjoyable as picking my settings, looking through the viewfinder and pressing a physical shutter button. Not to mention the joy of manual focusing on the Q2.

The Q2 really starts to shine in more challenging scenarios. The Q2 gives you flexibility to crop in order to put the focus on something you couldn't get close to. You start running short on megapixels if need to crop an iPhone photo much. I feel that the Q2 also gives more flexibility in lowlight since you can do quite a bit with the DNG in post. I've not tried the new ProRAW since I don't have the latest iPhone. The Q2 offers more options for using flash including off camera (take look at what Leica Guy's setup for capturing humming birds). The Q2 allows more control over artistic effects such as long exposure. I like the iPhone's long exposure for waterfalls, but it won't work for trying to erase people from a scene. I find it easier to screw a filter onto the Q2 rather than fiddling with phone camera add-on lenses.

And if none of that works dig up an article comparing a $20 WalMart purse to a $300 Macy's  purse. Or the same for shoes. Yeah, it's not apples-to-apples, but neither is comparing a Q2 to an iPhone.

[jmc014]

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I'm reading through the linked article and laughing. Of course the iPhone would take easier JPEGs, but that's not what the Leica Q2 is about. You'd need to take a DNG file, check for highlight clipping, and process in post. It's all about dialing in the different settings to create the image that you want. It's much more involved than the iPhone experience, yes, but that's what you are signing up for. You enjoy the challenge.

[Guest Nowhereman]

@SoCalLeicanator - I agree with your wife, in the sense that I wouldn't touch a Leica Q2. If I wanted something better than an iPhone 11 Pro, (or 12 Pro which is even better), I'd get a Ricoh GRIII.

For a Leica, I'd go with the M10 or M10-P, but ditch the M10-R or M10M — but, hey, that's me.
________________________
Frog Leaping photobook

[frame-it]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:25 AM, SoCalLeicanator said:

This might be heresy, but what do we say to a spouse who sends this link to us when we announce plans to get a Q2?  It's a pretty good chunk of change and we have agreed to "approve" each other's purchases over the years.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2020-06-leica-versus-iphone-versus-canon-versus-fuji.htm

simple, Show your Wife these Videos :

 

 

 

 

 

[KenBennett]

Ken Rockwell is certainly entertaining. Since he makes a living by having people visit his website, Ken has a history of making controversial statements to drive clicks. Nothing wrong with that - it's how the modern economy works, I think. But comparing a Q2 to an iPhone is like comparing an F1 car to a Honda Civic. Yes, the Civic is easy to drive and well made and you get great driving results. Both cars will get you to the market and back. But the F1 is far more rewarding for a professional driver pushing the limits. 

[rob_w]

Ah, Ken Rockwell.  Actually, I think some of his reviews are very helpful and some of his iconoclastic remarks make me smile.  He is not bad, overall, on championing Leica when appropriate.  But his photos are terrible, which sort of gives the game away.  And he only shoots JPEGs, which is another dead giveaway.  For his sort of camera review, I would probably go to Steve Huff in preference.  For anything serious, I would recommend a paid subscription to Sean Reid, who is on another level -- his testing is careful and thorough and his insights are convincing.  Then you have Jono Slack, Matt Osborne ('Mr Leica') and a whole host of others.  All of them have reviewed the Q or Q2 and all of them take photos you would be pleased to have taken yourself.

When making a purchasing decision, I would not want the Q2 to be the only camera and lens I have.  The high ISO / low light performance is disappointing, and I take a lot of photos indoors and/or at night where it just does not perform well enough.  The f1.7 Summilux lens is wonderful but it does have limitations as well as strengths.  Not to be able to use a different lens, albeit on another body, would be a big limitation.

I realise your question is: how do I justify this purchase in the face of the comparison, but it is just not a meaningful comparison.  Like others here, I own an iPhone 11 and use it for some shots when nothing else is to hand.  I always wish I had a proper camera with me, however.  My wife has made her peace with my love of Leicas because she has a 20+ year treasure trove of family photos that are clearly very, very high quality compared to point-and-shoots of yesterday or smart phone snaps of today.  And she knows that is priceless.

PS it is also rather nice that virtually all my Leica equipment is worth more today than what I paid for it originally.   The net cost is nothing like the absolute cost.

Edited July 7, 2021 by rob_w

[Herr Barnack]

@SoCalLeicanator  It sounds like there are two things at work in your wife's head - 1) she is not a photographer and is operating from a worldview of not knowing much if any technical information about digital photography (DNG vs. JPEG, low light ISO performance, sensor size as it applies to image quality - particularly with regard to printing, why a 28mm f1/7 Summilux ASPH lens is so costly compared to an 18-55mm f/3.8 "kit" lens, etc.).  In other words, you need to explain all this to her - you need to educate her a bit so she will understand.  I have always regarded images presented on a computer screen as for entertainment purposes only.  You can't really tell much about image quality until you see a properly processed and properly printed DNG file in print form.  To look at the images in Rockwell's link and conclude that a JPEG image from a phone "proves" that the phone is "just as good as the Q2" is simply not valid.

2) Your wife sounds like she is blinded by price - as in operating from a "Consumer Reports" standpoint, meaning she does not understand why anyone would want to pay $5500 USD for a Q2.  Yes, the Q2 is an expensive camera - but it is not the most expensive camera.  Show her a link to the Hasselblad H6X, H6D-100c, H6D-400c MS or the Fujifilm GFX 100.  If all we are looking at is price, the Q2 looks like a bargain compared to any of these.

The Q2 will never be picked by Consumer Reports as a "best buy" digital camera - and I say thank God for that!  It is simply light years better than any camera that consumer Reports would recommend. 

A lot of people - both non-photographers and many photographers - just can't wrap their heads around Leica's price structure.  In some ways, that is understandable.  Leica is one of those things in life that either you get it or you don't.  It's sort of like comparing a Casio wristwatch to a Rolex or a Panerai; there is a vast difference in quality and craftsmanship, even though the Casio will keep time "just as good as" the Rolex - perhaps even better, since we are comparing an electronic watch to a mechanical watch.  When a person buys a Rolex or a Panerai, what are they paying for?  Quality.  Reliability.  Excellence.  Craftsmanship.  Beauty.  Heritage.  Luxury.  Performance.  Same as what we are paying for when we buy a Leica camera or lens.

Some objects are not "best buys" - they are quality of life purchases.  Leica cameras are one of those objects.  There is an exhilaration that using a Leica camera brings to photography.  As Henri Cartier-Bresson once said, "Shooting with a Leica is like a long tender kiss, like firing an automatic pistol, like an hour on the analyst's couch.”  I get that kind of exhilaration from using my Leicas.  I never did get that from my Nikon, Fuji or Olympus cameras.

The Q2 is significantly less costly ($5500) than an M10R with a 28mm Summilux M lens ($16,500 USD), while providing much of the Leica experience.  When you compare $5500 to $16,500, the Q2 is the deal of the century (perhaps mention these figures to your wife in your discussions with her).

Consumer Reports "best buy" ratings have their place in the scheme of things, but they are not the holy grail by which anyone should live their lives.  A life lived by adhering to "best buy" standards is not a life well lived; it is merely an existence.  Sometimes you have to spend a chunk of money to elevate your quality of life.  Hopefully your wife will be able to see that.

I would say if the Q2 is within your means, get it.  You won't regret the purchase. 

JMHO.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Dannyred]

quoting Herr Barnack

"I would say if the Q2 is within your means, get it.  You won't regret the purchase. " I'm adding - If you use it. regularly>

The camera that gets you out there in the world taking pictures is the camera you should get and use. Virtually any camera or phone today will get you a photo but not all will put a smile on your face when you "click" - There's an emotional and intangible component to using a camera. I never thought I'd buy a fixed lens $6K camera (I also have a Fuji Xt-4 which I like) but when I attended a Leica workshop and used a demo Q2 - that intangible 'feeling' took over. I had a great day shooting with it and a fairly good 'keeper' rate. Everyone reacts differently to the gear they own - getting the camera/lens that's right for you should be the only explanation needed. You can't quantify the decision. It's just something that will make you happy - and hopefully prolific. 

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

"...Virtually any camera or phone today will get you a photo but not all will put a smile on your face when you "click" - There's an emotional and intangible component to using a camera..."

My point exactly.

Cameras are sort of like cars - a KIA will get you to and from where you need to go with no problem.  But a Ferrari will get you to and from with a rush of adrenaline, a breathtaking trip and a giddy smile on your face. You will enjoy the act of driving a thousand times more than if you were driving a KIA, too.

In that regard, Leicas are like Ferraris.

[rob_w]

23 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

A life lived by adhering to "best buy" standards is not a life well lived

As John Ruskin said: "someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing"

[Lee S]

Tell her next time she needs a new handbag she can just get a plastic shopping bag from target. Does the same thing, is waterproof and carries more than those small designer bags. 

[Herr Barnack]

1 hour ago, Lee S said:

Tell her next time she needs a new handbag she can just get a plastic shopping bag from target. Does the same thing, is waterproof and carries more than those small designer bags. 

As a married man, I can assure you:  In said advice lies the express lane to hell.  😳

Edited July 8, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Leica Guy]

I have an iPhone 11 Pro and a Q2. Several times, I have left my Q2 in the hotel room and gone for a walk in the evening only to discover gorgeous sunset scenes. I photographed them with the iPhone. When I later examined the results they are disappointing. The low light capability of an iPhone is impressive for such a small sensor, but it’s no where near the IQ of a Q2. Not even close upon detailed inspection. Your mileage may vary, but I recommend buying the Q2. No question. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[hdmesa]

On 7/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, SoCalLeicanator said:

This might be heresy, but what do we say to a spouse who sends this link to us when we announce plans to get a Q2?  It's a pretty good chunk of change and we have agreed to "approve" each other's purchases over the years.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2020-06-leica-versus-iphone-versus-canon-versus-fuji.htm

I'd be more concerned that you had to come here for a response. Are you sure you would make good use of a Q2? She probably sent you the link because she suspects you would not.

[Ecaton]

And why do YOU want a Q2...............?