Shift R lens - 35 PA Curtagon

[Shu_downunder]

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I use the 28 PC F2.8 a lot which I really like. It often gives me surprisingly good result on my a7. The only thing is that every time when I turn the adjust rod, I feel like I will end up break it. 

Does anyone have experience with the 35 PA Curtagon?

I think it won't be necessary to get a 35 PA considering I already have 28 PC. But I'm really curious if it worth to be considered as a backup?

 

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[a.noctilux]

Hello Shu,

Maybe you can just "lube" and/or clean the shift control of your 28mm PC-S-A.

Some dust may be stuck in the very precise sliding mechanism of this PC S-A as seen here delicate optic/mechanism

Just see on my unit some "faint" grease trace, when I "shift" the lens.

 

I've never use the 35mm PA Curtagon, but the limited to 7mm shift may be the cause.

As side note I have the very nice PC-Nikkor 2.8/35mm for it's E52 filter size very good "complement" to PC S-A 28 (for me not be easily filtered),

when I need colored filters for my Monochrom.

Edited March 20, 2021 by a.noctilux

[masjah]

I agree with the previous poster - if it is so stiff that you fear breaking it, then the answer is to get the lens serviced. Mine adjusts perfectly well, and the rotating rod has a spring mounting to protect it should it get knocked against anything. In his book Leica Reflex Photography, Brian Bower says that the 28/2.8 PC is a far superior lens to the PA Curtagon  in every way (both in terms of wider focal length and in terms of the available shift as well as optically in general).

I wouldn't even consider working on the lens myself - it is a complex design with a floating element.

Filters are problematical in my view. I would try to live without them. You could get blank glass disc filters (74mm) from B+W which fit into the lens hood of the lens, but personally I think they impair the performance of the lens. Even a parallel sided piece of glass gives a parallel lateral displacement to the light rays, which I personally think becomes significant with the very oblique rays which  can arise with large shifts. Normally I'm a member of the "always use a protective filter" school of thought, but this is the one case where I make an exception. I've actually git two lens hoods, one with a filter disc, and one without (it's a pain in the butt swapping a blank disc in and out) and use the former only in a very dusty or windy environment. It is possible also to use an E67EW filter (extra wide that is) which comes mounted in its own very vestigial lens hood, but I don't find this to be at all satisfactory either.

 

[Shu_downunder]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Shu,

Maybe you can just "lube" and/or clean the shift control of your 28mm PC-S-A.

Some dust may be stuck in the very precise sliding mechanism of this PC S-A as seen here delicate optic/mechanism

Just see on my unit some "faint" grease trace, when I "shift" the lens.

 

I've never use the 35mm PA Curtagon, but the limited to 7mm shift may be the cause.

As side note I have the very nice PC-Nikkor 2.8/35mm for it's E52 filter size very good "complement" to PC S-A 28 (for me not be easily filtered),

when I need colored filters for my Monochrom.

Thanks a.noctilux. 

My 28PC actually works fine. But at least I know now what to do if it’s not smooth anymore. 
 

May I ask why did you choose Nikkor instead of Canon TS lenses? I don’t have experience to either so I don’t have a preference. It seems the aperture control is a problem for the Canon one if you use it on a Leica body. 

[a.noctilux]

My first Shift lens is PC Nikkor 3.5/28mm which existed before PC-S-A,

so the logic choice was the PC Nikkor 35mm

I do have another rare PC lens Shift Zuiko 3.5/24mm, heavy lens with colored filters built-in,

this one is my most use when I fancy for Monochrom + architecture.

this one

difficult to shift by pushing

Edited March 20, 2021 by a.noctilux

[masjah]

3 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

My first Shift lens is PC Nikkor 3.5/28mm which existed before PC-S-A,

so the logic choice was the PC Nikkor 35mm

I do have another rare PC lens Shift Zuiko 3.5/24mm, heavy lens with colored filters built-in,

this one is my most use when I fancy for Monochrom + architecture.

Building in the filters in the optical path of the lens is a much more satisfactory solution (as in some of the Leica ultrawides) since the designer can (a) put them in a position where the angles of the light rays are not so extreme and (b) account for the presence of the glass in the design of the lens. The 280/4 R has a similar system where you can slide in a blank disc in a custom holder, or replace it with a special polariser - Leica actually say not to omit the blank disc, as it is part of the computation of the lens.

 

[Shu_downunder]

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48 minutes ago, masjah said:

I agree with the previous poster - if it is so stiff that you fear breaking it, then the answer is to get the lens serviced. Mine adjusts perfectly well, and the rotating rod has a spring mounting to protect it should it get knocked against anything. In his book Leica Reflex Photography, Brian Bower says that the 28/2.8 PC is a far superior lens to the PA Curtagon  in every way (both in terms of wider focal length and in terms of the available shift as well as optically in general).

I wouldn't even consider working on the lens myself - it is a complex design with a floating element.

Filters are problematical in my view. I would try to live without them. You could get blank glass disc filters (74mm) from B+W which fit into the lens hood of the lens, but personally I think they impair the performance of the lens. Even a parallel sided piece of glass gives a parallel lateral displacement to the light rays, which I personally think becomes significant with the very oblique rays which  can arise with large shifts. Normally I'm a member of the "always use a protective filter" school of thought, but this is the one case where I make an exception. I've actually git two lens hoods, one with a filter disc, and one without (it's a pain in the butt swapping a blank disc in and out) and use the former only in a very dusty or windy environment. It is possible also to use an E67EW filter (extra wide that is) which comes mounted in its own very vestigial lens hood, but I don't find this to be at all satisfactory either.

 

Thanks masjah. I now simply stop considering the 35 PA. 
 

Filters indeed

are important especially to lower the sky light to highlight the buildings. What filter would you use if it not for protection purposes?

[Shu_downunder]

6 minutes ago, masjah said:

Building in the filters in the optical path of the lens is a much more satisfactory solution (as in some of the Leica ultrawides) since the designer can (a) put them in a position where the angles of the light rays are not so extreme and (b) account for the presence of the glass in the design of the lens. The 280/4 R has a similar system where you can slide in a blank disc in a custom holder, or replace it with a special polariser - Leica actually say not to omit the blank disc, as it is part of the computation of the lens.

 

Does that mean it might be better result to use, say R19 filter built in version, in some cases?

[masjah]

For myself, I use colour negative film, or a digital body, so I have no need of filters other than for protection in bad outdoor conditions.

But let's assume that a coloured filter is very important for you. If you actually have a later  R19 then you could use that lens in most cases as an alternative to the PC lens, (of course with appropriate cropping of the resulting image). This would give by far the best solution for using a filter. (I think the lens turret has yellow-green, orange, blue and neutral. I suspect the blue was to use daylight colour reversal film in tungsten lighting.) If you don't have a later R19 then it's a much more difficult judgement call, because buying one would be a lot of money. In those circumstances I think I would first get hold of a 74mm unmounted disc of the desired colour, from B+W, put it in the PC lens hood, and see if the results look good enough for your needs. If not, then you've got to decide whether or not to go for the R19 lens.

[AZN]

11 hours ago, masjah said:

I suspect the blue was to use daylight colour reversal film in tungsten lighting.)

Yes.  It is roughly equivalent to an 80B colour correction filter.

Used to use it all the time when shooting indoors, even under fluorescents.  Yes I know they need a magenta filter, but found the blue filter helped push up the colour temperature to make it easier to fix the colour-balance in post.

FWIW I'm old school enough to consider never shooting indoors without at least an 80C filter.  I shot digital now and always in RAW, but every little bit helps to get the colour "right" 😃

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by AZN

[Shu_downunder]

17 hours ago, masjah said:

For myself, I use colour negative film, or a digital body, so I have no need of filters other than for protection in bad outdoor conditions.

But let's assume that a coloured filter is very important for you. If you actually have a later  R19 then you could use that lens in most cases as an alternative to the PC lens, (of course with appropriate cropping of the resulting image). This would give by far the best solution for using a filter. (I think the lens turret has yellow-green, orange, blue and neutral. I suspect the blue was to use daylight colour reversal film in tungsten lighting.) If you don't have a later R19 then it's a much more difficult judgement call, because buying one would be a lot of money. In those circumstances I think I would first get hold of a 74mm unmounted disc of the desired colour, from B+W, put it in the PC lens hood, and see if the results look good enough for your needs. If not, then you've got to decide whether or not to go for the R19 lens.

Thanks John, I will try filters before deciding whether go for a R19. A GND filter is probably more important to me than coloured ones, so I don't have much choice but very likely don't have to get a R19.

 

[dkCambridgeshire]

Please do not underestimate the R 35 Curtagon PC lens ... when the lens is shifted, the aperture s/b stopped down to at least f8 and preferably f11 ... whence results can be superb. I put off buying an R Curtagon  shift lens for years because of the negative comments ... but was very pleasantly surprised by its imaging when shifted and stopped down to the recommended f8 and f11 apertures.  Lens has received 'bad press' by those who have not used it &/or have not used it properly, or are repeating others' negative comments . I have posted several Curtagon R images on the forum ... wonderful little lens ... I also use the R 28 PC lens, Canon FD 35/2.8 Tilt & Shift lens,  Olympus OM 35/2.8 shift lens, and Canon TS-E 90mm f2.8 Mk I tilt & shift lens  ... Just sold my Canon TS-E 24 /3.5 Mk II as was too heavy and really requires a tripod ... all were used with Leica SL 601 and Sony A Series and Panasonic S1R . I prefer to use shift lenses handheld on the narrow pavements of towns I visit e.g ...  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290932-stamford-lincs-uk-architecture/?do=findComment&comment=4063941

BW

dunk

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire

[Shu_downunder]

12 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Please do not underestimate the R 35 Curtagon PC lens ... when the lens is shifted, the aperture s/b stopped down to at least f8 and preferably f11 ... whence results can be superb. I put off buying an R Curtagon  shift lens for years because of the negative comments ... but was very pleasantly surprised by its imaging when shifted and stopped down to the recommended f8 and f11 apertures.  Lens has received 'bad press' by those who have not used it &/or have not used it properly, or are repeating others' negative comments . I have posted several Curtagon R images on the forum ... wonderful little lens ... I also use the R 28 PC lens, Canon FD 35/2.8 Tilt & Shift lens,  Olympus OM 35/2.8 shift lens, and Canon TS-E 90mm f2.8 Mk I tilt & shift lens  ... Just sold my Canon TS-E 24 /3.5 Mk II as was too heavy and really requires a tripod ... all were used with Leica SL 601 and Sony A Series and Panasonic S1R . I prefer to use shift lenses handheld on the narrow pavements of towns I visit e.g ...  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290932-stamford-lincs-uk-architecture/?do=findComment&comment=4063941

BW

dunk

 

 

What a collection of shift lenses!

Thanks for the information about the 35PA, I will reconsider.

If you sold you Canon 24, the Leica 28 will be the widest, would you feel it wide enough?

Regards the 90 TS-E, would you still use it for architecture, even it intends for portrait and products. 

[a.noctilux]

If filters matter, just in case.

PA Curtagon 35mm, here in Wiki

filter size Serie 8 not that common.

[dkCambridgeshire]

2 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

What a collection of shift lenses!

Thanks for the information about the 35PA, I will reconsider.

If you sold you Canon 24, the Leica 28 will be the widest, would you feel it wide enough?

Regards the 90 TS-E, would you still use it for architecture, even it intends for portrait and products. 

28mm is wide enough for my purposes ... I have a 19mm R Mk II for interiors which is relatively lightweight ... The 90mm TS-E useful for compressed perspective 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/253192-leica-sl-image-thread-post-your-examples-here/?do=findComment&comment=4074390

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire

[Shu_downunder]

18 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

28mm is wide enough for my purposes ... I have a 19mm R Mk II for interiors which is relatively lightweight ... The 90mm TS-E useful for compressed perspective 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/253192-leica-sl-image-thread-post-your-examples-here/?do=findComment&comment=4074390

 

Thank you!

[Shu_downunder]

19 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

If filters matter, just in case.

PA Curtagon 35mm, here in Wiki

filter size Serie 8 not that common.

I would probably consider filter holder and square filters.

[Shu_downunder]

18 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

The 90mm TS-E useful for compressed perspective

If you use it on your A bodies, what adepter do you use so you can control the aperture from the camera? My body is A7.

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[dkCambridgeshire]

2 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

If you use it on your A bodies, what adepter do you use so you can control the aperture from the camera? My body is A7.

Forgot to mention I have a METABONES Canon EF to E mount Mk IV 'smart' adapter for use on Sony A7 Series cameras ... Did not mention have now sold my Sony A7SII ... no longer using Sony A7 series cameras after acquiring Panasonic S1R ... had too many cameras. I was using the A7SII for nocturnal architectural photography ... Being unable to travel to London during lockdowns was another contributory factor prompting sale of the Sony A7SII 'low light' camera. 

[masjah]

4 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

I would probably consider filter holder and square filters.

Just to add that, with its longer focal length and lower maximum shift, any problems with lateral shift of oblique light rays passing through a filter should be less severe with the older lens. So it's really a question of whether or not you need the wider angle and greater shift of the later lens. For myself, photographing interiors of churches, I find that I do.