M240 to M9M - does it make sense?

[hiphopopotamus]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've had an M240 for close to half a year, after upgrading from an M8. I did love the M8 (and its jpeg monochrome rendering I could get straight out of camera), but felt a bit restricted with (a) its resolution and (b) focal length shifts with the cropped sensor, hence why I upgraded.

While I've enjoyed the M240, the reasons I had for picking it were:

1) it had the evf option so I could mount and use some of my old contax/m42 lenses

2) it seemed the most cost-effective way in to the more modern tiers (high res, full frame) Leica

Regarding (1) - having used the contax lenses on it for a while, I have just not been happy in use on this body - while I love their rendering, they are usually far too heavy/cumbersome, and the combination of the EVF2 was just a bit clunky for me. Thus, I have sold off the majority of those lenses to focus on Leica-M mount lenses, and I'm happy with/don't feel restricted at all with the small selection of lenses I now have for the M (elmarit 24 2.8, Voigtlander 35 1.4II, Summarit 75 2.4).

Regarding (2) - the cost-effectiveness of the m240 is still true, but with the sale of the contax etc things - and not looking at new lens additions - I'm potentially in a position to jump to a different rung on the Leica ladder.

Finally - I actually preferred how the M8 handled - I feel like the M240 is somewhere between some of the DSLRs I used to use and the M8; the M240 has a feel of more optionality that makes the shooting experience less pure feeling to me.

This is where I'm stuck; I know that my ideal camera would be the non-existent "M10D Monochrome" (or whatever was the latest iteration of that). However, I also know that if (big and unlikely if, I appreciate) that camera were to release, I almost certainly would not be able to afford it.

I only care to shoot B&W, and honestly the options of working in raw with a coloured image are more frustrating for me than inspiring; I guess I'm craving simplicity. When making pictures, I try to see what I shoot in B&W, and I have the camera in B&W review mode when viewing images on the camera screen (though I try to avoid doing that), but it does throw me when I review the raw ones in Lightroom and they're in colour - I would say that it almost disrupts my thought process regarding the creation of the image.

On that disruption of thought process, I have also felt that the screen is an intrusion - potentially more-so than coloured raw - hence why I have always (until very recently) kept a film camera nearby too. But the cheapest way into an MD (ie a 262) is significantly more outlay than a monochrome, and it's also rare to see them on the market.

Thus it feels like the M9M would be a good path to follow, being the cheapest monochrome on the market and ticking off one of the boxes I have on my crusade for simplicity. This brings us to the "upgrade" cost (bearing in mind that, in tech terms (resolution in particular), it's more of a downgrade) is approximately £700 - this is the approximate cost of an average monochrome minus cost of average M240 on second hand market in the UK at the moment (just from what I've seen).

Appreciate this is a personal decision but do any of you have a feeling on taking  that step? If any of you faced a similar decision, did any of you have any dilemmas like this before jumping across (or not) to the monochrome ladder, and have you found it worthwhile? Are there any clear reasons not to make the jump (other than making sure any M9M on the radar has had the sensor replacement).

Finally, my photography has always been personal/amateur, and not professional - so I don't have that complication that some must shoot in colour sometimes given working restrictions.

[Keith (M)]

Can't fault your thought processes and conclusion!  As you are clearly dedicated to working (and thinking) in b&w terms and have seemingly opted out of film then the M9M is the logical answer to your photographic needs.  (Check for sensor replacement, obviously).  Good luck!

[colonel]

IMHO, although I loved the rendering of the M9 sensor (which is the same as the M8, just bigger), once I had gone to the 240 I could never go back. The refinement of the 240 across the board compared to the M9 in terms of shutter, build, foibles of M9 SD card compatibility, stability of RF, ISO performance, reliability of the sensor, etc. proved crucial

I used the M9M and it produces these lovely crisp images. It really has a lovely rendering, but I personally could not go back.

So i am going to make a recommendation that may be totally whacky for you.

The M10 series returned some of the simplicity and feel of the film cameras. Nothing wrong with the 240, but the M10 is just refined across the board and smaller. The sensor also has significantly improved the ISO performance, and the noise is very nice and analogue.

so i would recommend one option to think hard about is a second hand M10. Due to the improved sensor, the conversion to monochrome is crisp, and you get all the advantages of this lovely camera as well as a step forward in all the refinements the 240 brought. You might also like the 0.73 OVF which is great for 35mm and 50mm lenses. for 28mm lenses its a bit more of a reach around the eye, but super clear.

the M10 would last many years, especially as it would kill GAS for a while

tell us what you do!

 

 

[Jeff S]

No right or wrong, as each camera is capable of fine pics, with varying pros and cons depending on user style and preferences.

In my digital M phase (after decades with film Ms), I went from M8.2 to M240 to M10, the latter being the best digital M for me to date.  Nevertheless,  I added an M9 Monochrom to the mix a couple of years ago to supplement the M10.  I find the all-b/w mindset with the Monochrom to be its most compelling aspect.  Files from both the M10 and MM are of high quality, flexible and robust.  And my b/w conversions from the M10 are not lacking. In fact, I appreciate the flexibility of using color channels in post (in moderation and with subtlety).  But the MM thought process and workflow provides me with another great option when the mood strikes.  I never carry the M10 and MM together.

That said, I’m spoiled with the M10 platform, and the MM is not nearly as satisfying in terms of quietness, build tolerances and refinement, viewfinder experience (smaller, lower mag VF with 1m frame line optimization vs 2m for the M10... and M8.2 and M240), etc.  The M10 Monochrom would be tempting at a lower price point, but I still might rent one soon to see if the value equation works for me.

The M246 is a middle ground, budget friendly option for you to consider. If you can live with the form factor, just disable video in the menu.  It’s still a simple, capable machine in all other respects, more refined than the M9 platform, and better battery life than the M10.

Jeff

[Likaleica]

Took my M9M out today.  Quirky, but a great camera.  

However....  Sell your house and get a M10M.  You'll never regret it!

[a.noctilux]

As actual/present user of the two Monochroms, if I had to choose, it would be the M246.

 

No fear of sensor corrosion ( even if stated that last generation of sensor in MM1 is not prone to corrosion).

Better batteries and EVF possibility when needed.

[newtoleica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have an M10D - its lovely. I also have an M9M that I bought a month ago, mint, new sensor and still under Leica warranty for 6 months. 

I also have an M7 and an M6TTL Black paint. Dilemma. I love the files from the M9M, but the new APO 35 M is out and I will have to move something on to get it. I adore the APO 50, but 35 is slightly my preferred focal length so.... Anyway, the M9M is a nice camera. I never got on with the 240 and parted company with it very quickly. The M9M I took some of my best images with before I got back into film, but its different to film. My perfect camera would be an M10D - Monochrom I agree. but the M9M is simple and pretty close. Theres also some filmic quality to the CCD files that no M since has. It still blows me away and if I didn't love my TRi X analogue prints I would use it more. I may put it up on the classifieds with the M6TTL and my pre-FLE 35 Summilux.

[hiphopopotamus]

Thank you all for the informative and balanced responses. If I had to summarise, I think the following are the over-arching sentiments from the feedback here:

1) the Monochrom thought-development-process is real, and if I value B&W-only shooting I will most likely enjoy what it offers much more than shooting in raw colour

2) the price of an M9M body is comparatively (say to an M246) high given its dated tech and various "quirks"

3) if looking at Monochrom pricing levels, it isn't too much further to push toward an M10 which may be a better option given, among other things, its nice handling and stellar B&W rendering

4) there may be a risk that even a replacement sensor could have issues on an M9M (is this true?) - thus an M246 may be a wiser choice than M9M

5) an M10M is the current real-world-Leica holy grail for people that are attached to B&W shooting

6) ideally a rental would make sense to test whether any Monochrom offers me what I'm looking for

From what I hear, a Monochrom would most likely suit me down to the ground, as it clearly does many of you. While the M10 would be an amazing camera to own, I think there is more value at this point in time - especially with that extra jump in cost for a used M10 - of me testing out that pure B&W workflow rather than jumping to the M10 level.

I've thus taken the decision to sell the M240 and to pick up a Monochrom. Given it's still a bit of a test - and with the difficulty of renting and doing decent shooting trips with lockdown still in front of us - my gut instinct is to jump at first buying an M9M, see if it suits and, if not, to take any relative hit in buying vs selling price as an effective "rental" hit. If that's the case, it'll likely then be a case of re-evaluating the M246 vs M10 vs MD 262 debate. But that's a theoretical comparison for a later (/perhaps never) date

Will keep you updated, thanks again for all the input.

PS Brendan - I'm in London also, so if you do decide to move on your M9M on in the near future, please do give me a shout!

[Jeff S]

21 minutes ago, hiphopopotamus said:

Thank you all for the informative and balanced responses. If I had to summarise, I think the following are the over-arching sentiments from the feedback here:

1) the Monochrom thought-development-process is real, and if I value B&W-only shooting I will most likely enjoy what it offers much more than shooting in raw colour

2) the price of an M9M body is comparatively (say to an M246) high given its dated tech and various "quirks"

3) if looking at Monochrom pricing levels, it isn't too much further to push toward an M10 which may be a better option given, among other things, its nice handling and stellar B&W rendering

4) there may be a risk that even a replacement sensor could have issues on an M9M (is this true?) - thus an M246 may be a wiser choice than M9M

5) an M10M is the current real-world-Leica holy grail for people that are attached to B&W shooting

6) ideally a rental would make sense to test whether any Monochrom offers me what I'm looking for

From what I hear, a Monochrom would most likely suit me down to the ground, as it clearly does many of you. While the M10 would be an amazing camera to own, I think there is more value at this point in time - especially with that extra jump in cost for a used M10 - of me testing out that pure B&W workflow rather than jumping to the M10 level.

I've thus taken the decision to sell the M240 and to pick up a Monochrom. Given it's still a bit of a test - and with the difficulty of renting and doing decent shooting trips with lockdown still in front of us - my gut instinct is to jump at first buying an M9M, see if it suits and, if not, to take any relative hit in buying vs selling price as an effective "rental" hit. If that's the case, it'll likely then be a case of re-evaluating the M246 vs M10 vs MD 262 debate. But that's a theoretical comparison for a later (/perhaps never) date

Will keep you updated, thanks again for all the input.

PS Brendan - I'm in London also, so if you do decide to move on your M9M on in the near future, please do give me a shout!

#4... Depends on the replacement. I have not seen a single report of corrosion for the ‘permanent’ sensor fix.  Early on, Leica was replacing sensors with the same problematic version, but that eventually changed when a fix was achieved. Leica can verify type of repair by serial number.  And a good dealer (like Leica Miami here in the US) will only sell those having the latest sensor, and with CLA and warranty, which I would recommend.

An M246 (M240 Monochrom), as noted, is also a viable alternative without jumping to an M10 or M10 Monochrom.

Jeff

[t00l1024]

Prior M9M and current M10M owner, but have used the M246 also. Really loved the era of CCD's too.

It would be a no-brainer for me. M10M if your budget allows it. It is my most enjoyable and rewarding camera I've ever owned. If your budget doesn't allow for that, M246. There's so many on the market today, likely due to owners upgrading (for good reason). EVF opens up the adapters + old, unique lenses that you just can't do with the M9M. There's a look with an old Nikon 50mm that just looks awesome with a crappy adapter, and that's a big plus.

-tim

[Mr Fjeld]

1 hour ago, t00l1024 said:

...... your budget doesn't allow for that, M246. There's so many on the market today, likely due to owners upgrading (for good reason).

Interesting - would you care to explain why?

[t00l1024]

1 hour ago, Mr Fjeld said:

Interesting - would you care to explain why?

To debate the merits of the M246 vs. M10?

I'd been in the market for a M10M when they were announced. It was no secret that as availability for the M10M increased, more M246's showed up in the used market. Following Leica Miami, SF. etc in that time frame all had many M246's for sale (~June/July 2020)

[Mr Fjeld]

18 minutes ago, t00l1024 said:

To debate the merits of the M246 vs. M10?

I'd been in the market for a M10M when they were announced. It was no secret that as availability for the M10M increased, more M246's showed up in the used market. Following Leica Miami, SF. etc in that time frame all had many M246's for sale (~June/July 2020)

I see. I was just a bit perplexed as to why someone was upgrading "for good reason". I'm not trying to be argumentative or pick a fight, but I feel that the "upgrade" isn't so obvious. So much has been said about both alternatives, and of course if you consider the amount of pixels the M10 Monochrom wins hands down. But to be honest the whole debate about M9 - M246 or M10 M is a bit tedious. I do suggest thought that although the M10 Monochrom is a fantastic camera, most of us are probably going to be just as well served with an M246 - or an M9 for that matter. All of the Monochromes are capable and fantastic cameras but the limiting factor is probably the photographer. Every camera will offer their own advantages and also limitations and it's the user who has to find a way to adapt to the idiosyncratic properties any given camera.

It makes sense to buy the new Monochrom if you can afford it, as it offers you peace of mind with the guarantee, but I doubt the photos are going to be substantially better than if you bought an M246. This is only my opinion of course, but saying that upgrading is "obviouis" or "for good reason" is perhaps a bit exaggerated?

[t00l1024]

1 minute ago, Mr Fjeld said:

All of the Monochromes are capable and fantastic cameras but the limiting factor is probably the photographer....

... but I doubt the photos are going to be substantially better than if you bought an M246. This is only my opinion of course, but saying that upgrading is "obviouis" or "for good reason" is perhaps a bit exaggerated?

First statement goes without saying. ;-)

I didn't mean to state the M246 wasn't a great camera, and even in comparison to the M10. But I feel like this debate (as you put it)... tedious also. I'm sure some of those M246 -> M10M upgrades last year for the sake of that the upgrade existed (GAS). But it *is* an upgrade. If there's a debate, it's whether the upgrades are worth the additional $$ for the M10M. At the time of my purchase, I owned a M10 (loved it) and M9M (loved it), so the marriage of both was attractive. 😜

I'll have to take my buddy's M246 for a spin again and see if my opinion changes (it's been almost a year since I've handled it). I'm incredibly fond of the M10 platform over the M240.

[leicaphilia]

I followed the same path you're contemplating. A dedicated B&W shooter, I loved my M8's output. Went from it to an M240, a perfectly servicable camera but somwhat generic. From there bought an M9M, which I love. The B&W files are truly special, much the same way the M8 files were. No regrets here.

[hiphopopotamus]

Just a quick update for you all - managed to sell my M240 at the beginning of the week and found a very keenly priced M9M at Red Dot (London) with a 2017 replacement sensor, just over 3000 actuations, and 6 months warranty - Kimberley at Red Dot was very helpful and had a good look over it for me whilst on the phone. Anyhow, total "upgrade" cost to me was just £600 in the end, which seemed great value. Will be sure to upload photos from it to the Monochrom thread once I have it in hand next week. Thanks to all for the input and steer, it was very valuable.

Edited March 11, 2021 by hiphopopotamus

[Shu]

I just did the same - traded my M262 straight up for a M9M from a local photographer. I have other camera gear that can easily exceed what the M262 can do, but a monochrome sensor is something special and unique. 

[Henry Taylor]

I never looked back when I traded my M240  for another M9 . Very Happy 

[Henry Taylor]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

M9 Summicron 35mm  ASPH Edited April 16, 2021 by Henry Taylor
added lens info

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M