Monochrom versus Color Conversion to B&W?

[AceVentura1986]

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On 1/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, gtownby said:

All -

Thanks for the information. Great advice in your responses. Yes, I can understand some film discipline is required for the Monochrom so I'm going to order an orange filter to use on my MP with Tri-X while I decide on the M10Monochrom.

I have yellow, orange and red filters and have found that the orange filter works best while resulting in only about a 1/2 stop loss of light. I tend to keep it on most of the time as I like it’s effects so much. 

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

I have yellow, orange and red filters and have found that the orange filter works best while resulting in only about a 1/2 stop loss of light. I tend to keep it on most of the time as I like it’s effects so much. 

I completely agree with you. I really like skin tones with the orange filter on many skin types. It also smooths out the high MP with the M10M. 

The yellow filter is almost imperceptible and I only see very slight changes.

[Likaleica]

16 hours ago, strohscw said:

Hallo Likaleica,

many thanks for this great stuff!

Will take a weekend to through it.

Took me a lot more than a weekend.  I've been working on it for a few months now!  🤣

[AceVentura1986]

22 hours ago, dkmoore said:

I completely agree with you. I really like skin tones with the orange filter on many skin types. It also smooths out the high MP with the M10M. 

The yellow filter is almost imperceptible and I only see very slight changes.

Yes, it’s effects on skin tone is impressive. I like it so much that I keep an orange filter on my 50 Cron and another on my 75 voigtlander. The portraits I get w the 75 and the filter are beautiful and cannot, imho, be replicated using the color sliders in a color conversion. I shot one session a year ago w my Canon 6D an 85 mm canon lens w the intent of converting to BW. Just for kicks, I also shot the model w my M9M and the CV 75mm w the filter. No matter what I did to the canon images in post I couldn’t replicate the smooth and clear look I got w the M9M and orange filter. 

[Guest]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:01 PM, Jeff S said:

Digital print results depend on many factors, just like in the darkroom, most importantly user input. I have far more flexibility and control (and obviously convenience) digitally, including the ability to better experiment with, and quickly adapt to, different papers.  The combination of the Epson P800 and ImagePrint works wonders for me, even using standard Epson inks. My inkjet prints hold their own compared to my silver prints, albeit sometimes in different ways. I know others who work with fully monochrome inksets, e.g., Jon Cone’s Piezography, but that entails more time and effort, which I find increasingly unnecessary given the advanced state of current printing technology and many fine paper choices.

The last thing I would want to do is outsource my prints, film or digital.  
Jeff

Jeff

I've decided to dip my toe back into Piezography this year by converting an Epson 3800 to Jon Cone's inks. I've an Epson 3800 that isn't used much now I have a P800 too so this seems to be a good opportunity to give the 3800 some more useful life. It's still in good shape and it's well suited to Piezography despite getting somewhat long in the tooth in "electronic years". It helps too that there's a French stockist for the inks in Toulouse, not too far away from me........well a tad closer than Vermont anyway.

I used to print with earlier versions of Piezography +14 years ago before I moved from the US to France, leaving my too difficult to move-with large 24" 7000 series Epson printers behind but now as A2 is my preferred paper size to print to and having the two printers I can now divide their B&W and colour tasks easily and I am keen to use Piezography again anyway. I found that there was a substantial difference printing B&W images with Jon Cone's inks compared to using Epson's full spectrum inks back then and now with their new Piezography Pro inks the tonal range and the depth of the blacks is quite astonishing. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by petermullett

[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, petermullett said:

I've decided to dip my toe back into Piezography this year by converting an Epson 3800 to Jon Cone's inks. I've an Epson 3800 that isn't used much now I have a P800 too so this seems to be a good opportunity to give the 3800 some more useful life. It's still in good shape and it's well suited to Piezography despite getting somewhat long in the tooth in "electronic years". It helps too that there's a French stockist for the inks in Toulouse, not too far away from me........well a tad closer than Vermont anyway.

I used to print with earlier versions of Piezography +14 years ago before I moved from the US to France, leaving my too difficult to move-with large 24" 7000 series Epson printers behind but now as A2 is my preferred paper size to print to and having the two printers I can now divide their B&W and colour tasks easily and I am keen to use Piezography again anyway. I found that there was a substantial difference printing B&W images with Jon Cone's inks compared to using Epson's full spectrum inks back then and now with their new Piezography Pro inks the tonal range and the depth of the blacks is quite astonishing. 

I donated my 3800 to a local college after 7 years of use, and it was still going strong.  So it should serve you well.  A good friend still uses Piezo, although he also converts to b/w with more recent Epson machines and color inks (including Cone color), and incorporates IP into his workflow.  Everything has changed in 14 years....the machines, the inks (Epson and Cone), the papers, the software (LR and IP are both dramatically better), etc, etc.  At some point, I just decided to save myself the time required to maintain a separate dedicated printer, particularly once I witnessed the closure in the gap between Piezo and other approaches.  George DeWolfe, a respected printer, did side by side tests using Piezo, Epson Advanced B/W, ImagePrint, etc., and ended up choosing IP for both its image quality and profiles.  At the end of the day, much comes down to user skill and comfort with whatever approach they follow. You have a terrific setup, which I'm sure will give you much pleasure.  Enjoy.

Jeff

[Guest]

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27 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I donated my 3800 to a local college after 7 years of use, and it was still going strong.  So it should serve you well.  A good friend still uses Piezo, although he also converts to b/w with more recent Epson machines and color inks (including Cone color), and incorporates IP into his workflow.  Everything has changed in 14 years....the machines, the inks (Epson and Cone), the papers, the software (LR and IP are both dramatically better), etc, etc.  At some point, I just decided to save myself the time required to maintain a separate dedicated printer, particularly once I witnessed the closure in the gap between Piezo and other approaches.  George DeWolfe, a respected printer, did side by side tests using Piezo, Epson Advanced B/W, ImagePrint, etc., and ended up choosing IP for both its image quality and profiles.  At the end of the day, much comes down to user skill and comfort with whatever approach they follow. You have a terrific setup, which I'm sure will give you much pleasure.  Enjoy.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, yes I think the 3800 will do well for my B&W / Piezography needs, I'm looking forward to getting back into it. I do miss not being able to print longer / wider as I used to with the 7000 series printers.....but my budget now isn't close what I used to be to afford back then so maybe it's a good thing that I am limited to 17" wide with the two printers I have here now!

 I used to use IP with the 7000 series and yes it's excellent, but in contact with IP recently when considering getting back into it I learned that they only work with OEM Epson inks and not other manufacturers who supply refillable systems such as I use here in Europe, ( Marrutt systems in the UK for my refillable inks and papers for the P800 and the 3800 ), and IP wouldn't be of any use with Piezography either so I will be using QuadTone RIP again for the 3800 / Piezography set-up. It's a good RIP, it's what Jo Cone uses / recommends,  and I am fairly familiar with it having used it before.

[Jeff S]

I think my buddy has figured out how to incorporate IP with Piezo, but that’s probably not something I’d want to undertake.  But he’s 10 years younger than I, very savvy technically, and still has the energy to shoot, develop and print 5x7 film. I’m happy to ‘fake it’ with my Monochrom and Epson P800!

Jeff

Edited May 12, 2021 by Jeff S