"The Leica Camera Inc. U.S. Warranty" for M8: ??

[barjohn]

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The following is going to be real controversial but on Leica's web site on their technical sheet for the camera it states the following:

 

Image sensor

Low-noise CCD sensor specially tailored to the requirements of the M lens system. Pixels : 10.3 million.

Dimensions : 18 mm x 27 mm. Extension factor : 1.33 x. Aspect ratio 3:2. Moiré-Filterno, full utilization of lens

performance. Moiré detection and elimination in digital signal processing.

 

and

 

DNG (Digital Negative Format not specific to any camera manufacturer), 2 different highly compressed JPEG levels.

DNG file information16 bit-color resolution, 10.2 Mbyte file size per picture

 

Neither of those statements is true of the camera today. However, they can be held to those statements as specifications that the camera is not meeting until they are corrected.

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[larry]

Wow! And people complain about how much bandwidth is consumed by an occasional JPG posted in the M8 forum. I think the moderators should set up a separate Leica Legal forum. ;-)

 

Larry

[rbaron]

Wow! And people complain about how much bandwidth is consumed by an occasional JPG posted in the M8 forum. I think the moderators should set up a separate Leica Legal forum. ;-)

 

Don't look at me. All I did was ask if anyone had a copy of the US M8 warranty!

 

:-)

[barjohn]

Sorry, thought I might save you doing the legal research. Text is limited to 1K characters so not much bandwidth anyway. We attorney's can be wordy.

[larry]

John,

 

Not a problem, but it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Anyhow, I'm used to this stuff, my wife is a nurse/paralegal.

 

Larry

[barjohn]

Larry, no problem.

 

I just want to see Leica fix the known defects and have it meet their published specifications. I really like the camera so I am willing to give them some time to remedy the issues. If however, after a year they are not fixed, and even if it costs me on selling my lenses, I will probably demand a refund. It's like going into a high end shoe store and you see this great looking pair of $500 shoes. You try them on and they feel ok but perhaps a little tight in one spot. The salesman assures you that the shoes are made from the finest Corinthian leather (I couldn't resist that one) and they will stretch and be wonderful. You wear them for a while and you get lots of great compliments but you also start to get a blister and you find you don't want to wear them because it hurts. So you take the shoes back to the store and you find the salesman that sold you the shoes and you say, "you said the shoes would stretch but they haven't and they are giving my feet blisters." The salesman says, "no problem, let me take them to the back and put them on our stretcher and they will be fine." He disappears with your shoes and an hour later he returns and says, "all fixed". You are a little miffed over how long it took but you really like all of the compliments and how the shoes look so you take them home. Once again you wear the shoes and low and behold, they still give you blisters. What do you do? Do you keep them because they really look good or do you take them back and ask for a refund?

 

I know analogies are never perfect but that is how I see it. I hope the fixes come and they work.

[Eoin]

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I was just thinking to my self earlier today when I read this thread that perhaps Leica Camera Inc had decided since there were known issues with the M8 and the litigious nature of the market that they were not publishing any warranty but rather standing over each and every camera sold.

 

Since re reading this thread and the guidance of barjohn re the laws in the US (CA) throws some light on to what they may have let them selves open to.

 

However I must say, in all my dealings with Leica Solms over the past 9 months, I have found them very courteous and eager to deal with any issues I may have had. I'm not waiving my rights as a consumer here, but given the way the camera preforms now with full knowledge of issues before I bought it and my experience of direct customer service from Leica AG I have no desire or feel any need to even consider legal action.

 

No Product preforms 100% in every area of consumer satisfaction, perhaps our own desires for improvement sometimes overshadow what an excellent and absolute joy to use the camera actually is.

 

I doubt if one seriously considered returning the camera to Leica after purchase citing dis satisfaction with it that they would have any problem, however 9 months from purchase may just be stretching the bounds a little irrespective of what the law provides for. But then again that's just the way I think YMMV.

[rbaron]

I wouldn't think it proper to buy and use an M8 for 6 or 9 months and then try to get a refund because all the quirks and hiccups had not been cured.

 

But of course that is just IMNSHO.

 

 

However, I have been curious about what my rights might be if I bought a used M8 from someone who had bought it new from a US Leica dealer a month or so earlier....and it worked when I bought it....and then two weeks later the shutter froze or some other electronic calamity occurred.

 

That's why I asked if anyone had a copy of the "Leica US M8 Warranty".

 

If someone does, please let me know.

 

In the meantime, I think I'm out of this thread, with one last observation: Leica US has always treated me properly and with courtesy and consideration and I assume they would do so, if they can, in the future. Our relationship goes back about fifty years now....a lot longer than any marriage I've ever had.

 

--Bob

[barjohn]

Eoin,

 

Normally what you are saying is true and most of us would not expect to use a product for 6 or 9 months and then return it; however, if all along during that period the company was promising they were going to fix the problems and you were being paitent and waiting for the fixes but they never materialized then why should you be penalized for generously waiting to have the problems fixed?

 

I had to send my camera back and it was replaced but not without considerable heartburn of unanswered emails or calls that failed to be returned. It took considerable time and effort on my part. Some threads I have seen have been far worse than my situation with no camera for months and numerous calls and emails to no avail. I'm glad that not everyone has had these kinds of experiences and I trust that Leica has been working to improve the situation but everyone has their limits and they aren't all the same.

 

As litigous a society as we have here in the U.S., it is a testament to the overwhelming generosity of the american consumer that they gracefully accepted Leica's solution to the IR problem without a class action law suit. Further, even though you knew about the issues from sites like this forum, Leica has never publicly acknowledged those issues on it web site or in its literature, thus when you go to their site and read their specifications for the camera you are entitled to hold them accountable to those specifications. They have the power to change the specifications (going forward) and to inform the buyer of problems that they know of and don't intend to fix or do intend to fix as the case may be. They also could publish limitations on their warranty. They have done neither. Perhaps their next software release will fix many of these problems (some might only call them irritations) and they will meet their specifications like offering 16 bit DNG files. I hope so.