Makaveli45 Posted August 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm giving thought to getting an M8. I have some concerns that may cause me to not get the camera, and I'm also waiting to see what Nikon announces next because that may determine where my money goes. But I'm doing some preliminary research right now. Can someone tell me what are my options in purchasing a 21mm and a 50mm lens? I'm a bit confused by the names used by Leica like summilux and summicron. How many 21mm lenses are there? How many 50mm lenses are there? What are the approximate prices new or used? What's my best best for fast lenses in these focal lengths? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 Hi Makaveli45, Take a look here Basic information requsted. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Paul_S Posted August 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 21, 2007 Hi John, welcome to the forum. Regarding choice of lenses, you can find them at Leica's own web site of course Leica Camera AG - Photography - Lenses Note that Leica will introduce a new line of Summarit lenses, speed f/2.5 and ranging from 35 up to 90mm, later this year. Details on the same site as well. Regarding price: the Summarit line is intended to be the budget line, together with the Elmarit 2.8/28mm ASPH. The Elmarit 21mm for example has a much higher price tag. For current pricing in your country, go web sites of larger resellers. I am sure other posters have opinions about that. Buying yourself into a new system is always a bit overwhelming at first, but once you get used to the names, you will get the idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trs Posted August 21, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 21, 2007 I had the same confusion with leica's naming convention when I joined the leica world last year. Basically, name corresponds to max apperture of the lens. I kind of like the idea. Of course, prices are set accordingly (based on apperture). F1.0 = Noctilux (available only in 50mm) F1.4 = Sumilux F2.0 = Sumicron F2.5 = Sumarit F2.8 = Elmarit F4.0 = Elmar I have neither 21 nor 50, so I am of no help in that question. But, according to Leica's site, there is only one variation of 21mm available (F2.8). -tanka Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 21, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 21, 2007 Outside of the Leica stable there are excellent offerings by other makes, Voigtlander and Zeiss, so there is plenty of choice in all focal lengths. Add to that that there is a lively market for used discontinued models, it starts to get overwhelming. I would suggest that you subscribe to Sean Reid's excellent website. It will answer most of your questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted August 21, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 21, 2007 I have the 21mm Elmarit – my only lens so far! – and am loving it. And my next will be a 50mm, so I think we're in the same territory here. My one comment is that you might want to consider the 28mm Summicron rather than the 21mm Elmarit as your wide angle. It would give you 35mm equivalent cover but would be a stop faster. I'm now wondering whether, if I had my time over, I wouldn't have started there. Just a thought! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 21, 2007 Share #6 Posted August 21, 2007 I will put some lenses that go with Tanka's list here which may help on the focal lengths. I may miss a few so pardon me F1.4 = Summilux 35mm,50mm and 75mm which the 75mm is discontinued, known to have charactor in look, sharp wide open with nice OOF falloff to the sides.Bokeh kings usually F2.0 = Summicron 28mm,35mm,50mm,75mm APO, 90mm APO These are very sharp lenses which are designed to be sharp wide open and carry that sharpness throughout. one would say more clinical in look compared to the equivlents of the summilux. F2.5 = Summarit 35mm, 50mm, 75mm and 90mm . These are more the budget line coming out in Novemeber and will most likely be sharp and more general purpose in character F2.8 = Elmarit 21mm, 24mm, 28mm, 90mm little slower lenses but extremely good and some of the best wides around ever F4.0 = Elmar 16,18,21 Tri Elmar and 90mm macro. Slower lenses but more special purpose but of extremely high quality I may have missed a couple , sorry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted August 21, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm giving thought to getting an M8. I have some concerns that may cause me to not get the camera, and I'm also waiting to see what Nikon announces next because that may determine where my money goes. But I'm doing some preliminary research right now. Can someone tell me what are my options in purchasing a 21mm and a 50mm lens? I'm a bit confused by the names used by Leica like summilux and summicron. How many 21mm lenses are there? How many 50mm lenses are there? What are the approximate prices new or used? What's my best best for fast lenses in these focal lengths? I assume your 'research' will include a pre-purchase trial. I daresay no-one would buy an automobile costing the same as an M8 without a thorough test-drive. From your questions it would appear you are unfamiliar with the Leica M system. It's vastly different from a reflex in a number of ways. You might find that you like it as well or better than a reflex, but then again it might not appeal to you. Allowing for forums where rangefinder afficionados congregate en masse, the enormously disproportionate preference for reflexes amongst pro and amateur photographers for the last several decades is a testament to the odds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaveli45 Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted August 21, 2007 I assume your 'research' will include a pre-purchase trial. Don't really know of a way to get a "trial". I actually thought I might just buy it and resell on ebay and eat the loss if I don't like the camera. (If anyone is looking to trade a day with your M8 for a free rental at my Manhattan studio -lighting included, let me know). For a while I've been looking for a "special" camera. It sort of bothers me that I shoot several times a week professionally, and I enjoy it, but I don't have any type of camera that is anything more than functional. I have 2 Nikon D2x bodies that I use regularly. I want a camera that is somehow "different" so it will cause me to shoot differently. I want a camera that will be sort of like an expensive watch -all it does is tell the time, but for some reason knowing that you spent $5,000 on the watch makes you happier than you'd be knowing you spent $10 on that watch. I know none of that makes much sense, but that's why I want a M8. I do expect to use it professionally, but I am bothered that it wouldn't be my "low light" camera. The D2x isn't great at low light and my main hesitation is that I'd be buying another body that isn't great at low light. So I'm not sure what niche the M8 would serve for me, but I figure I would find one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 21, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 21, 2007 But it IS great at low light. Just slip on a Noctilux - it is handholdable to say 1/15th, Iso 1250 produces shots that are not smooooooth but nicely textured and print great.. You are in candle-light territory here.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted August 21, 2007 Share #10 Posted August 21, 2007 I want a camera that is somehow "different" so it will cause me to shoot differently. I want a camera that will be sort of like an expensive watch -all it does is tell the time, but for some reason knowing that you spent $5,000 on the watch makes you happier than you'd be knowing you spent $10 on that watch. I know none of that makes much sense, but that's why I want a M8. I for one don't think that's an entirely senseless thought process. I just think you're more courageous than most for admitting to it! What you're saying is that you're thinking more with your heart than your head. My reasons for getting an M8 were pretty diffuse too. I've had it a month (working, as opposed to back-focusing and pissing me off) and I'm new to Leica and rangefinders. I come from a D100 / D200 background, I'm amateur, and the moment I knew Leica were bringing out a digital, I knew I wanted it. Part of that was conscious and sensible. When you heft a D200 to your face you scream "pro". People have repeatedly asked me in the street what paper I work for. If you try to be inconspicuous, all too often you end up looking like a stalker. And I also sometimes shoot on TV and film sets, and again, the shutter sound of a D200 going off makes everyone look round, even between takes. So with my head I wanted an inconspicuous reportage camera that I could still get decent images out of. With my heart I further wanted to follow in the footsteps of the countless 20th century photographic icons who've used Leicas. I don't necessarily want to emulate them slavishly; I just like feeling like I'm on the sidelines of something with some weight and history to it. And though Nikon has weight and history, I dunno, it just doesn't grab the cojones quite the same way. So... don't beat yourself up for not having all the boxes ticked. And for what it's worth, despite teething troubles and technical issues and so forth, I don't think I've had such fun with a camera since I was ten, and the results are (in general) superb. Under most circumstances, it knocks the D200 right out of the ring. There'll be an issue to do with handling, coming from an SLR system, but I for one have found that inside the month I've been using the camera steadily, I've got pretty much completely used to it. Go on... you know you want to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurtch Posted August 21, 2007 Share #11 Posted August 21, 2007 Elmar seems to cover not only f4, but f3.5, such as the venerable 50mm f3.5 Elmar. In the late 1950s (I think) Leica changed their 50mm f3.5 Elmar to f2.8 but kept the Elmar name. I had one on my Leica M2. I made a 4ft by 6 ft B&W enlargement with it, and had it hanging on my Living Room wall. Used very slow B&W film (either Adox KB14, Agfa IFF or similar) Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted August 21, 2007 I want a camera that is somehow "different" so it will cause me to shoot differently. I want a camera that will be sort of like an expensive watch -all it does is tell the time, but for some reason knowing that you spent $5,000 on the watch makes you happier than you'd be knowing you spent $10 on that watch. I know none of that makes much sense, but that's why I want a M8. It makes perfect sense to me - though I'd still have bought an M8 if it cost $10. In fact I might even have bought two... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted August 22, 2007 Share #13 Posted August 22, 2007 I would suggest, if you want to save some money for more lenses, the following: If Wide apertures are needed, go for the Zeiss ZM 21mm F2.8 and the Planar 50mm F2 (both for about $1,500) If wide apertures are not absolutely needed (meaning you can do with a higher ISO), then the Cosina Voigtlander 21mm F4 Skopar rangefinder coupled and the CV 50mm F1.5 Nokton (around $800) Leica is not a better alternative, in my opinion in the 21mm length. And while the lux and cron in the 50mm have a fantastic and well deserved reputation, if you are not a pro, the Nokton is a fantastic lens. I would suggest adding a CV 15mm, it is a fantastic lens. More money in your pocket = More lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted August 22, 2007 Share #14 Posted August 22, 2007 Don't really know of a way to get a "trial". If you're in Manhattan, see if Calumet rents one. I know you used to be able to rent film M's through them. Perhaps Tamarkin might do something as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted August 22, 2007 Share #15 Posted August 22, 2007 I would suggest, if you want to save some money for more lenses, the following:If Wide apertures are needed, go for the Zeiss ZM 21mm F2.8 and the Planar 50mm F2 (both for about $1,500) If wide apertures are not absolutely needed (meaning you can do with a higher ISO), then the Cosina Voigtlander 21mm F4 Skopar rangefinder coupled and the CV 50mm F1.5 Nokton (around $800) Leica is not a better alternative, in my opinion in the 21mm length. And while the lux and cron in the 50mm have a fantastic and well deserved reputation, if you are not a pro, the Nokton is a fantastic lens. I would suggest adding a CV 15mm, it is a fantastic lens. More money in your pocket = More lenses I have a Zeiss ZM 21. It is a great lens but it does require a finder because it is large (long) and blocks too much of the camera's viewfinder - if you're trying to use the 24 frame and add a pinch. The 21/4 CV Skopar is smaller and less expensive. Stealthy too, if you want to skip the finder. Leica's 21/2.8 Elmarit ASPH is a great lens - if you can afford it. It is about the same size as the 21/2.8 ZM. There will soon be a 21/4.5 ZM, but it is only a few dollars less than the ZM 21/2.8. There is also an older non ASPH Elmarit which is a nice lens. Older (1970s) 3.4 and 4 Super Angulons are still out there for about the price of the ZM 21 but they are big (fat) and you can not use the M8's meter. You might also consider the CV 25/4 with M mount. It is a nice, sharp little lens. Personally, I'd get either the 21 or 25 CVM and spend the rest of your money on a 28 or 35 Summicron. But, then again, I do love my 21 ZM. It's razor sharp. So, to answer your question: 21s= Elmarit ASPH (2.8), Elmarit (2.8), Super Angulon (3.4 and 4), (ZM) Biogon (2.8 and 4.5), (CV) Skopar (4). 50= Nocti (1), Summilux (1.4), Summicron (2), Summarit (2.5), Elmar (2.8), ZM Plannar (2), Sonnar (1.4), CV 50 Nokiton (1.5), Heliar (2 & 3.5), Skopar (2.5). I may have missed one or two. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23, 2007 Share #16 Posted August 23, 2007 The Zeiss ZM Biogon 21 is far less obtrusive in the viewfinder if you use the 28 mm lenshood, which is round and smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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