Best setting for SL2 shooting Bird in Flight?

[sillbeers15]

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10 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

I’m so happy with this shot!

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Nice! Kindly share your settings and your experience over the V3.0 firmware on AF (I assume it is 90-280?).

Edited September 23, 2021 by sillbeers15

[Ktsa5239]

8 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

Nice! Kindly share your settings and your experience over the V3.0 firmware on AF (I assume it is 90-280?).

I think the update helped, I was using afc zone focus on medium drive. 

[Ktsa5239]

Does anyone know if the pre-focus setting actually does anything? I've tried holding the camera and do nothing but it doesn't really focus by itself. Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of pre-focus? 

[sillbeers15]

17 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Does anyone know if the pre-focus setting actually does anything? I've tried holding the camera and do nothing but it doesn't really focus by itself. Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of pre-focus? 

It suppose to assist Focus lock before you trigger the shutter release button.

[Ktsa5239]

But wouldnt it focus anyway when you half trigger the shutter? I dont see how it would help by prefocusing, especally when using tracking, I have to half press the shutter to lock anyway. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ktsa5239

[Photoworks]

54 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

But wouldnt it focus anyway when you half trigger the shutter? I dont see how it would help by prefocusing, especally when using tracking, I have to half press the shutter to lock anyway. 

I personally turn this off. I hear noise in the back and it is always the pre-focusing trying hard. I don't turn off the camera.

Pre-Focus takes you closer to potential focus point so that you are not at close-up focus when taking a landscape on infinity .

I think it uses extra battery that can be use in other activities.

[Shawn30]

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On 10/29/2020 at 11:16 PM, sillbeers15 said:

For BIF, if the background is the sky. Avoid shooting into strong backlight on auto exposure creating an underexposed subject as Camera’s contrast detection cannot work well tracking underexposed subject (due to lack of contrast) and let the camera prefocus till subject is bigger than focusing box before pressing the shutter release button to focus track ( it improves success rate to box turn green). Therefore setting it to APSC mode and keeping the aperture to f5.6 and small aperture helps keeping subject in focus for BIF. 

This is a good thread with some great information. I don’t understand the advantage of putting the SL2 into APSC. Is there a crop factor that enlarges the image?

[Ktsa5239]

5 minutes ago, Shawn30 said:

This is a good thread with some great information. I don’t understand the advantage of putting the SL2 into APSC. Is there a crop factor that enlarges the image?

My theory is when it is in APSC, it does less calculations due to less pixels so the AF is faster and more accurate 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Shawn30 said:

This is a good thread with some great information. I don’t understand the advantage of putting the SL2 into APSC. Is there a crop factor that enlarges the image?

On top of what Ktsa5239 has said, the full frame is retained when APSC mode is selected. The APSC only happens to what you view in EVF/LCD and the 225 AF sensor coverage area. When the image of subject enlarges it is easier for the camera AF to lock focus thus improves sharp pics success rate when tracking fast moving and unpredictable movement subjects such as BIF. Besides when the subject partially moves off frame it can still be salvageable if the image falls within the full frame.

[Ktsa5239]

ok I'm super confused about the whole Afs Afc and tracking modes again..... I've tried Afs with tracking but its still locking onto the bird but clearly not focused as in the box is green and moves with the bird but the bird is blurry. I could twist the focus ring to improve the focus but it fails to actually change focus as the bird moves. I'm experiencing the same issues on Afc with tracking as well. 

The other problem with tracking is that I cant seem to lock if the bird is already flying even though I'm panning and holding the bird at the centre of the frame, the only way I could get it to lock is if the bird was stationary in the first place and I wait for it to take off. 

So far the only success I have is either from luck using Afs with spot focus because the bird takes off on the same plane so its close enough to be covered by DOF or using afc and zone focus for big birds like seagulls or egrets. I found no consistent way to shoot BIF with birds smaller than finger length. My anticipation and knowing the movements and behaviour of the bird has allowed me to catch the moment it leaps but the focus is not adjusting fast enough if it moves towards or away from me. 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Ktsa5239 said:

ok I'm super confused about the whole Afs Afc and tracking modes again..... I've tried Afs with tracking but its still locking onto the bird but clearly not focused as in the box is green and moves with the bird but the bird is blurry. I could twist the focus ring to improve the focus but it fails to actually change focus as the bird moves. I'm experiencing the same issues on Afc with tracking as well. 

The other problem with tracking is that I cant seem to lock if the bird is already flying even though I'm panning and holding the bird at the centre of the frame, the only way I could get it to lock is if the bird was stationary in the first place and I wait for it to take off. 

So far the only success I have is either from luck using Afs with spot focus because the bird takes off on the same plane so its close enough to be covered by DOF or using afc and zone focus for big birds like seagulls or egrets. I found no consistent way to shoot BIF with birds smaller than finger length. My anticipation and knowing the movements and behaviour of the bird has allowed me to catch the moment it leaps but the focus is not adjusting fast enough if it moves towards or away from me. 

I will try to answer your questions based on my past experience using the SL280mm with SL2. I am still figuring out the limitations of the Sigma 150-600mm lens but my initial experience is it is more difficult to lock focus than the SL90-280mm.

'ok I'm super confused about the whole Afs Afc and tracking modes again..... I've tried Afs with tracking but its still locking onto the bird but clearly not focused as in the box is green and moves with the bird but the bird is blurry. I could twist the focus ring to improve the focus but it fails to actually change focus as the bird moves. I'm experiencing the same issues on Afc with tracking as well.'

- My guess is that the Focus Tracking box missed locked focus onto your stationary subject but it locked focus onto background instead. If this happens again, try switching over to 'spot' focus mode to see if the focus on your subject can be done precisely. This situation happened to me before therefore whenever I am shooting a stationary bird, I prefer to switch over to MF and use the rear joystick to autofocus the subject or rotate the manual focus ring.

'The other problem with tracking is that I cant seem to lock if the bird is already flying even though I'm panning and holding the bird at the centre of the frame, the only way I could get it to lock is if the bird was stationary in the first place and I wait for it to take off.'

- Yes focus lock onto a flying bird can be done. It is not easy as you need to precisely place the box over your subject accurately. trigger your shutter release and watch the box turn green and continue to be green over your subject as the shutter continues to take more frames. Many times the box can jump outside the subject and turn white from green and repeats the same scenario again as you move your frame with the moving subject an even worst case can be the lens suddenly starts focus hunting and you loose view of the subject in the EVF or LCD screen. This means the focus tracking is not successful and you might get a couple of clearly focus pictures over the entire stretch of frames. I had too many of these experiences in earlier firmware and the firmware V3.0 improved the success rate of focus locking and tracking.

'So far the only success I have is either from luck using Afs with spot focus because the bird takes off on the same plane so its close enough to be covered by DOF or using afc and zone focus for big birds like seagulls or egrets. I found no consistent way to shoot BIF with birds smaller than finger length. My anticipation and knowing the movements and behaviour of the bird has allowed me to catch the moment it leaps but the focus is not adjusting fast enough if it moves towards or away from me.'

- This is where switching over to APSC format helps to enlarge the image of the subject in the viewer while the sensor actually retains the Full Frame data which you can call out in LR to process. In my experience, catching a bird launching into flight is almost impossible due to the lag in response between my eye and finger hitting the shutter release button.

Always remember the limitation of the CDAF to lock focus due to:

1   Subject too small;

2   Subject has no sifficient contrast against strong back light.

My suggestion would be the 3 points below for BIF:

1. Switch to APSC (even when you are using Sigma 150-600mm lens);

2. Make sure there the sun is either on your left, back or right;

3. More practises to focus lock onto fast moving subject ( a Dot Sight Device can come in  a ashandy aid).

 

[Ktsa5239]

2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I will try to answer your questions based on my past experience using the SL280mm with SL2. I am still figuring out the limitations of the Sigma 150-600mm lens but my initial experience is it is more difficult to lock focus than the SL90-280mm.

'ok I'm super confused about the whole Afs Afc and tracking modes again..... I've tried Afs with tracking but its still locking onto the bird but clearly not focused as in the box is green and moves with the bird but the bird is blurry. I could twist the focus ring to improve the focus but it fails to actually change focus as the bird moves. I'm experiencing the same issues on Afc with tracking as well.'

- My guess is that the Focus Tracking box missed locked focus onto your stationary subject but it locked focus onto background instead. If this happens again, try switching over to 'spot' focus mode to see if the focus on your subject can be done precisely. This situation happened to me before therefore whenever I am shooting a stationary bird, I prefer to switch over to MF and use the rear joystick to autofocus the subject or rotate the manual focus ring.

'The other problem with tracking is that I cant seem to lock if the bird is already flying even though I'm panning and holding the bird at the centre of the frame, the only way I could get it to lock is if the bird was stationary in the first place and I wait for it to take off.'

- Yes focus lock onto a flying bird can be done. It is not easy as you need to precisely place the box over your subject accurately. trigger your shutter release and watch the box turn green and continue to be green over your subject as the shutter continues to take more frames. Many times the box can jump outside the subject and turn white from green and repeats the same scenario again as you move your frame with the moving subject an even worst case can be the lens suddenly starts focus hunting and you loose view of the subject in the EVF or LCD screen. This means the focus tracking is not successful and you might get a couple of clearly focus pictures over the entire stretch of frames. I had too many of these experiences in earlier firmware and the firmware V3.0 improved the success rate of focus locking and tracking.

'So far the only success I have is either from luck using Afs with spot focus because the bird takes off on the same plane so its close enough to be covered by DOF or using afc and zone focus for big birds like seagulls or egrets. I found no consistent way to shoot BIF with birds smaller than finger length. My anticipation and knowing the movements and behaviour of the bird has allowed me to catch the moment it leaps but the focus is not adjusting fast enough if it moves towards or away from me.'

- This is where switching over to APSC format helps to enlarge the image of the subject in the viewer while the sensor actually retains the Full Frame data which you can call out in LR to process. In my experience, catching a bird launching into flight is almost impossible due to the lag in response between my eye and finger hitting the shutter release button.

Always remember the limitation of the CDAF to lock focus due to:

1   Subject too small;

2   Subject has no sifficient contrast against strong back light.

My suggestion would be the 3 points below for BIF:

1. Switch to APSC (even when you are using Sigma 150-600mm lens);

2. Make sure there the sun is either on your left, back or right;

3. More practises to focus lock onto fast moving subject ( a Dot Sight Device can come in  a ashandy aid).

 

Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate your help and advice, I mean your advice have helped me massively since the beginning of my bird photography journey.

The thing that’s still frustrating is that I have taken light direction, contrast, shutter speed, apsc mode, bird behaviour all into account. And I’m getting pretty good hit rate with medium size birds and bigger birds but Tracking is seriously struggling to stay on birds that’s smaller than a palm. Focus works when it’s stationary but all the shots are out of focus when it takes off. It couldn’t be motion blur because I’m using 1/2000 shutter. 
 

thanks again

 

 

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[sillbeers15]

25 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate your help and advice, I mean your advice have helped me massively since the beginning of my bird photography journey.

The thing that’s still frustrating is that I have taken light direction, contrast, shutter speed, apsc mode, bird behaviour all into account. And I’m getting pretty good hit rate with medium size birds and bigger birds but Tracking is seriously struggling to stay on birds that’s smaller than a palm. Focus works when it’s stationary but all the shots are out of focus when it takes off. It couldn’t be motion blur because I’m using 1/2000 shutter. 
 

thanks again

 

 

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Small birds are the most challenging. Even shutter speed needs to be at least 1/3200 sec while 1/2000 would be sufficient for shooting bigger birds BIF. Birds taking off are also challenging as it is almost impossible to time well for their take off not to mention the direction of flight. You're in the right direction. I'm certain more practice will get you the pics you're after. I have not tried buts staging a bird feeding point with your camera aimed with a fixed focus at a nearby branch set up next to it would be a good way to get good shots of smaller birds. Shots of small birds landing and taking off would be made easy if you can successfully attract the birds to your feed. Just my idea and two cents worth. My message to you is don't give up, keep trying. This is the fun of bird photography since we have more grey matters over the birds!

[sillbeers15]

An article on bird feed staging for photography to attract small birds.

https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2021/secret-techniques-for-close-up-bird-photography-with-sigma-lenses/

[Ktsa5239]

After another few days of testing. The 90-280 is certainly more accurate in locking focus than the 150-600. I’m having the most success on AFs no matter whether I use zone, field or tracking.

it’s so annoying to have to choose between longer reach or higher hit rate.

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Edited September 30, 2021 by Ktsa5239

[sillbeers15]

49 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

After another few days of testing. The 90-280 is certainly more accurate in locking focus than the 150-600. I’m having the most success on AFs no matter whether I use zone, field or tracking.

it’s so annoying to have to choose between longer reach or higher hit rate.

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This is where a Dot Sight device becomes handy especially on the Sigma 150-600mm.

[acapella]

Dear all,

 

Is it right that in all the discussions on AF performance I never read anything about AF profile settings. Are they irrelevant and neglected or do I miss something?

regards

[sillbeers15]

5 hours ago, acapella said:

Dear all,

 

Is it right that in all the discussions on AF performance I never read anything about AF profile settings. Are they irrelevant and neglected or do I miss something?

regards

Yes indeed the AF profiles selection and fine tuning matters. However it is only relevant when the Focus Tracking is locked onto subject successfully and loseses subject due to either sudden movement direction change or the view of subject is blocked by environment momenturally and reappears after.

[Ktsa5239]

Sorry to resurrect an old post! But I really want to share that my hit rate is slowly improving with BIF shots!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Ktsa5239]

Here is a barn owl 

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