SL-2 EVF (with strobe studio shoots), PAS to PASM, and joystick question.

[Jeremy Saffer]

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Hi! new to Leica and to Mirrorless. Have three questions I cant seem to figure out and i need some help.

this is all with the SL-2

So heres the problem: the white balance of my strobes are not the same as the white balance of the modeling lamps. they are vastly different. unfortunately the EVR previews in the color balance you have set.

 

so if im shooting AWB it looks perfect, I take the shot - the file/photo is perfect, but the EVF immediately turns orange/yellow and takes almost 30 seconds to return to normal color balance.

 

the only color balances that worked with the strobes, made my subject yellow/orange (too warm) the color balances that worked with the modeling lamps in the strobes and make my subject look normal, the photos all came out blue (too cold)

 

is there anyway to make it so the EVF doesnt preview white balance? It would be maddening to do all my shoots with the subject/background/entire EVF going yellow after every time a strobe fires.

 

question 2.

Between shooting strobes/LED/Natural light - I find myself going from PAS to PASM and back and fourth often during a shoot, going into the menu to make that switch is kind of cumbersome to say the least - is there any shortcut for this? I couldnt figure out how to program any of the FN buttons for this, I couldnt add it to favorites, is the only way to switch PAS to PASM by clicking menu several times to navigate to the option and switch it?!

 

question 3.

on manual focus the joystick does magnification, AWESOME!, on auto, there is no way to make the joystick do magnification?! (WHY!?!?!?!?) is there a way to do it and im just not figuring it out? - i know you can set it to one of the FN buttons but thats a bit out of the way for how i hold a camera. - also what is auto-magnification, how do you trigger it in auto-mode? that may be even more helpful than the joystick situation but i just cant figure it out.

 

thanks so much!

- Jeremy

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Saffer said:

Hi! new to Leica and to Mirrorless. Have three questions I cant seem to figure out and i need some help.

this is all with the SL-2

So heres the problem: the white balance of my strobes are not the same as the white balance of the modeling lamps. they are vastly different. unfortunately the EVR previews in the color balance you have set.

 

so if im shooting AWB it looks perfect, I take the shot - the file/photo is perfect, but the EVF immediately turns orange/yellow and takes almost 30 seconds to return to normal color balance.

 

the only color balances that worked with the strobes, made my subject yellow/orange (too warm) the color balances that worked with the modeling lamps in the strobes and make my subject look normal, the photos all came out blue (too cold)

 

is there anyway to make it so the EVF doesnt preview white balance? It would be maddening to do all my shoots with the subject/background/entire EVF going yellow after every time a strobe fires.

 

THAT IS A COMMON ISSUE WITH MIRRORLESS CAMERAS, OVER THE YEARS I HAVE NOT FOUND A SOLUTION, AND CAMERAS HAVE NOT ADDED WB OPTION FOR EVF.

 

question 2.

Between shooting strobes/LED/Natural light - I find myself going from PAS to PASM and back and fourth often during a shoot, going into the menu to make that switch is kind of cumbersome to say the least - is there any shortcut for this? I couldnt figure out how to program any of the FN buttons for this, I couldnt add it to favorites, is the only way to switch PAS to PASM by clicking menu several times to navigate to the option and switch it?!

 

YOU CAN CREATE A PROFILE FOR STUDIO SHOOTING WITH FLASH AND M PREVIEW OFF AND ANOTHER WITH THE OTHER SHOOTING MODE.

 

question 3.

on manual focus the joystick does magnification, AWESOME!, on auto, there is no way to make the joystick do magnification?! (WHY!?!?!?!?) is there a way to do it and im just not figuring it out? - i know you can set it to one of the FN buttons but thats a bit out of the way for how i hold a camera. - also what is auto-magnification, how do you trigger it in auto-mode? that may be even more helpful than the joystick situation but i just cant figure it out.

 

IT DOES WORK WITH ALL M LENSES IN MANUAL MODE, SO IT SHOULD.

 

IT IS POSSIBLE YOU HAVE TURNED THE TOP WEEL TO CHANGE THE MAGNIFICATION ONCE YOU HAVE PUCHED JOYSTICK?

 

thanks so much!

- Jeremy

THAT IS A COMMON ISSUE WITH MIRRORLESS CAMERAS, OVER THE YEARS I HAVE NOT FOUND A SOLUTION, AND CAMERAS HAVE NOT ADDED WB OPTION FOR EVF.

 

YOU CAN CREATE A PROFILE FOR STUDIO SHOOTING WITH FLASH AND M PREVIEW OFF AND ANOTHER WITH THE OTHER SHOOTING MODE.

 

T DOES WORK WITH ALL M LENSES IN MANUAL MODE, SO IT SHOULD.

 

IT IS POSSIBLE YOU HAVE TURNED THE TOP WEEL TO CHANGE THE MAGNIFICATION ONCE YOU HAVE PUCHED JOYSTICK?

Edited August 18, 2020 by Photoworks

[hoppyman]

Q1 the important thing is that you WB your DNG correctly when you develop from those. While you can set AWB and change later without penalty, what I have started doing now is set a fixed value (5500k) for in studio so that every preview of a shot taken is consistent on review.  (model looking through the set for example). The generated preview from a shot is very approximate in comparison to the raw data though. The EVF when composing before you shoot of course does look very warm from the modelling and room lights. I haven’t actually noticed a difference in that when going from AWB to fixed 5500k. You actually can adjust the values of the LCD I think. The only thing that counts though is what you do from the DNG. I suggest just living with the EVF warmth, knowing it’s not relevant to the output.

Q2 you can set that PAS or PASM value and much else in different profiles. I have one for studio flash and another for natural light in my set. Less menu clicks? Can you program profile selection to a function button?

Q3 I don’t thank that magnification is intended to be available or useful during AF. However, if you set the joystick for an AF mode, you can operate in MF while having AF available at a single press. That method is a common precision technique I think.

As an an aside, that full time MF override in AF is available in the S system. For whatever reason it wasn’t done with the SL system. It’s still there of of course, you just can’t trigger magnification as far as I know.  On my two SL Summicrons the manual focus action is quite stiff but I don’t use it at all myself. However this all works with the S lenses with adapter on the SL2

[ynp]

Q1. I tried to gel my modeling lights (old Broncolor) unsuccessfully when I used a mirrorless in studio , now I ignore it.
My S or any DSLR work as intended in the studio environment.  

I don’t understand why anybody would like to use AWB in studio with strobes. K5500 or K5700 works better. 

[Jeremy Saffer]

10 minutes ago, ynp said:

Q1. I tried to gel my modeling lights (old Broncolor) unsuccessfully when I used a mirrorless in studio , now I ignore it.
My S or any DSLR work as intended in the studio environment.  

I don’t understand why anybody would like to use AWB in studio with strobes. K5500 or K5700 works better. 

the same thing happens on k5500 where the image turns warm tone for about 30 seconds before returning to normal (only on the EVF, not on the actual file/image)

[Jeremy Saffer]

On 8/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, hoppyman said:

Q1 the important thing is that you WB your DNG correctly when you develop from those. While you can set AWB and change later without penalty, what I have started doing now is set a fixed value (5500k) for in studio so that every preview of a shot taken is consistent on review.  (model looking through the set for example). The generated preview from a shot is very approximate in comparison to the raw data though. The EVF when composing before you shoot of course does look very warm from the modelling and room lights. I haven’t actually noticed a difference in that when going from AWB to fixed 5500k. You actually can adjust the values of the LCD I think. The only thing that counts though is what you do from the DNG. I suggest just living with the EVF warmth, knowing it’s not relevant to the output.

Q2 you can set that PAS or PASM value and much else in different profiles. I have one for studio flash and another for natural light in my set. Less menu clicks? Can you program profile selection to a function button?

Q3 I don’t thank that magnification is intended to be available or useful during AF. However, if you set the joystick for an AF mode, you can operate in MF while having AF available at a single press. That method is a common precision technique I think.

As an an aside, that full time MF override in AF is available in the S system. For whatever reason it wasn’t done with the SL system. It’s still there of of course, you just can’t trigger magnification as far as I know.  On my two SL Summicrons the manual focus action is quite stiff but I don’t use it at all myself. However this all works with the S lenses with adapter on the SL2

Thanks so much - luckily the DNG file white balance are all spot on regardless of the EVF going haywire every single shot i take. - but even at any fixed value the EVF goes nuts every time i take a shot. no adjustments have really helped. - I do need to learn how to save and switch profiles - that would be quicker, i just wish pas to pasm was a FN button option. seems silly that it isnt. for magnification, again, i am new to mirrorless, i find no matter half body full body or headshot many images focus on the eyelashs vs the iris which is really annoying to me.

[Chuck Albertson]

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With the SL (and I assume the SL2), if you set the WB to the "flash" setting, the camera will adjust the WB seen in the EVF to that of the modeling lamp, so the scene looks "normal" while you're composing/focusing. But as soon as you trip the shutter it changes the WB to 5500K for the flash exposure. This was added to the SL by one of the later firmware versions, and it was a good idea so I assume it was carried over to the SL2; a quick perusal of the SL2 manual doesn't reveal any discussion of this, however.

I mostly reserve AWB for the "Hail Mary" situations where all of the fixed settings somehow look off. I shoot DNG, and even though you can always monkey with the color temperature in the DNG, I find that using a fixed WB setting gives a more consistent look to the pictures when I sit down to edit them, and it simplifies making any batch changes to WB.

[Jeff S]

Related to Q#3, I set my SL2 for back button (joystick) AF, so focus is decoupled from the shutter, and further set the menu to provide magnification via a twist of the focus ring (SL lenses) for fine tuning focus.Touching the shutter button brings back full view, ready for shooting. This works great for me, but I don’t do studio work. 
 

Jeff

[hoppyman]

23 hours ago, Jeremy Saffer said:

SNIP............ , i find no matter half body full body or headshot many images focus on the eyelashs vs the iris which is really annoying to me.

...........

Jeremy I am surprised that you can differentiate a sharpest focus difference between lashes and iris with half or full length shots. Well in studio I am usually around f/8. Perhaps we are operating differently. I think with AF in general (not SL specific) lashes may well be more likely to be detected. If you need extremely critical focus consistently on the near eye iris at a wide aperture,  you need everything else well controlled firstly, subject stillness and tripod for example. You can use a single AF point (and set to smallest size and MF with magnification. Not something I have done much with, except a play with the APO Summarit S 120 by adapter. Not wide open though and I found that starting to move focus ring to fine tune with MF means I really don’t know exactly where the AF point was locked anyway.

 

 

[Jeremy Saffer]

im usually f8+ on portraits. but im a sharp-eye kinda guy - coming from the canon SLR world with spot focus, im always expecting the eye to be TACK sharp, and ive found that wasnt happening as much with spot focus but works better with face detection for some reason? again - new to mirrorless. but its really important to me that eyes are sharp/in focus and not catching lashes instead. seems to be getting better and more solid as i shoot more and more with the sl2

[hoppyman]

5 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

With the SL (and I assume the SL2), if you set the WB to the "flash" setting, the camera will adjust the WB seen in the EVF to that of the modeling lamp, so the scene looks "normal" while you're composing/focusing. But as soon as you trip the shutter it changes the WB to 5500K for the flash exposure. This was added to the SL by one of the later firmware versions, and it was a good idea so I assume it was carried over to the SL2; a quick perusal of the SL2 manual doesn't reveal any discussion of this, however.

I mostly reserve AWB for the "Hail Mary" situations where all of the fixed settings somehow look off. I shoot DNG, and even though you can always monkey with the color temperature in the DNG, I find that using a fixed WB setting gives a more consistent look to the pictures when I sit down to edit them, and it simplifies making any batch changes to WB.

Hi Chuck. I don’t see that here ( SL2 and I thought SL previously) I am using the screen rather than the EVF. I thought that they would look the same. I must go experiment. I have only for the last couple of shoots not just left the camera on AWB though. Habits! Or using the screen instead of viewfinder for that matter.

With modelling light only and room down lights I see a very warm WB whether camera set to AWB or 5500k.

I definitely agree that using a fixed value (I never have before) gives that consistent appearance that really helps when you start your review on your computer, as well as the previews in camera. I used to use a swatch target test shot too, but I find that I am then setting WB via sampling from the background paper, which isn’t actually perfectly neutral. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by hoppyman

[Chuck Albertson]

2 hours ago, hoppyman said:

Hi Chuck. I don’t see that here ( SL2 and I thought SL previously) I am using the screen rather than the EVF. I thought that they would look the same. I must go experiment. I have only for the last couple of shoots not just left the camera on AWB though. Habits! Or using the screen instead of viewfinder for that matter.

With modelling light only and room down lights I see a very warm WB whether camera set to AWB or 5500k.

I definitely agree that using a fixed value (I never have before) gives that consistent appearance that really helps when you start your review on your computer, as well as the previews in camera. I used to use a swatch target test shot too, but I find that I am then setting WB via sampling from the background paper, which isn’t actually perfectly neutral. 

Geoff,

I don't know if there's any difference between the screen and the EVF, as I never use the screen. I first ran across this in Josh Lehrer's piece on the 3.0 firmware version for the SL a few years ago:  https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/05/leica-sl-firmware-3-0-released-major-updates/

He says: Leica has made a clever change to the way that the “flash” white balance setting works. If you are working with studio strobes, most likely you are using modeling lights to properly aim the lights at your subject. Most modeling lights have a much different color temperature than the actual flash, so if you have your white balance set to flash, the image could look a bit off when previewing it with live view. Now in firmware 3.0, when set the camera to the flash white balance setting, the SL uses auto white balance during live view to give you a proper preview, and then sets the flash white balance for the actual exposure. Smart!

In my experience, this works only if you have set the WB to the designated "flash" setting (which also sets the WB at 5500K). If I use the custom temperature setting for 5500K or 6000K for flash, I don't get the same effect with the modeling light.

[hoppyman]

Chuck that’s interesting thanks. I don’t have my SL any more but shall do a careful check for the same situation with the SL2. Only recently have I started using that fixed  WB (experimenting with 6500K and 5500K for review consistency) and viewing entirely via the rear screen.