Is the M10M sooo much better than the rest?

[didier]

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I took the unreasonable plunge and bought the M10M as early as February 😊

I used to be a colour slide and BW M shooter. 2014 I went for the M(240). I didn’t like high iso (colour) rendition, and got, as time passed, dissatisfied with the M(240) slow operations. I thought my SL + CL would be more than enough for colour.

 

I wanted to go back to basics and simplicity with a light and efficient one body / one lens at a time. A M10M without screen and no motor would also have been perfect 😉

I cannot compare the IQ difference between M(246) and M10M, but I can say I love the smoothness of operations, simple UI, quiet shutter, perfect speed of operations, in one word the efficiency and pleasure to use the M10M : it is for me a huge leap forward from the M(240/246) to the M10M.

And with more pleasure, I think I can take better photos. At least I have so much more motivation to use the camera !

 

didier 

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[LeicaS2]

Galvin had an interesting observation on my earlier crop comparison. I went back into LR to see if I could find the source files and couldn't, so I reshot the comparison fresh with a more photogenic scene.

The new images are really close at low ISO ( 320 vs 400 ) f4, hand held at 1/2000 for the M10M with a yellow filter, and the S (007) at 1/3000.  If you look at the two crops of the scene they look the same, with maybe any differences due to LR preset processing.  But if you click on the images to further enlarge them and go pixel peeping we can see that I think the M10M is a winner for a 60"x90" print. The cropping was as if looking at a 5x8 crop from a 30"x45" print. 

Comparing the cameras and shooting experience is totally different. One is a small rangefinder with framing that is not as precise as an SLR. The S optical viewfinder is unsurpassed.  The full image shows the S 120mm effective 96mm superimposed on the M 90mm. Jeff S was merely wondering if I had done a print comparison, and I haven't. What's amazing is one's shooting preference would be over which camera ergonomically you would prefer rather than the quality of the files.  In other test comparisons, the S had the edge. I would think the lens choice would make a bigger difference. S lenses are wonderful. As stated earlier, one should always do your own testing, But this thread was about the M10M being better than the earlier mono cameras. Hey, if I had an early mono, who knows if I would spend the money to upgrade, but until there is a S 007 mono or S3 mono, the M10M is amazing. 

Meanwhile, I noticed James S who started this thread has subsequently been posting like crazy on the 246 image thread so Likeleica's thought that the M10M thread has more postings than the 246 because of multiple postings per user per day is no longer a fair explaination as long as James is at work. I suggest you all visit the 246 image thread and see some very nice work. Perhaps the three treads should be merged, and just enjoy looking at B&W photos regardless of equipment.

Jack

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[Likaleica]

2 hours ago, LeicaS2 said:

Perhaps the three treads should be merged, and just enjoy looking at B&W photos regardless of equipment.

 

Here, here!  Superb idea, Jack!  I would add B&W photos from Monochrom cameras, since there already is a B&W thread regardless of equipment.

 

[James S]

13 hours ago, LeicaS2 said:

I noticed James S who started this thread has subsequently been posting like crazy on the 246 image thread

Well, it seems it was a vain attempt to resurrect some interest in posting the to 246 thread, in the vague hope we may stay ahead for a little longer. But it didn't take long for the M10M guys to whizz past us. 😉

I haven't really worked out when to post where... The image threads buried in here are probably only ever viewed by us weirdos who think it's a good idea to pay more for a 'backwards camera' (slightly surprised the M-D's are still allowed to hang out in their parent camera forums rather than also being chucked in here), so maybe the B&W thread would be a better place to get my craft on display. But then do I want my 'beautifully pure' monochrom images to share a thread with those heinous black and white conversions. Pah!

On the other hand, if we don't post in the outside world (i.e. outside of the monochrom forum), how else is the rest of the world going to realise how fantastic our cameras are?

[DonnaW]

I can't answer your question, but I have one of my own, or maybe two.  We are talking about the newer monochrome, not the 24 megapixel one?  Is that right?  I just got an M10-M and have been experimenting with it. I also got a 50mm lens and a visoflex attachment.Is anyone a fan of the visoflex on the M10m?  I am thinking of returning it.  I'm new to the M10 and in my initial test shots I think it may just either not be needed or actually distract.  I am used to autofocus and nervous about this new, but very exciting camera.   If you have used it, in what circumstances was it valuable?  

[Musotographer]

19 hours ago, DonnaW said:

I can't answer your question, but I have one of my own, or maybe two.  We are talking about the newer monochrome, not the 24 megapixel one?  Is that right?  I just got an M10-M and have been experimenting with it. I also got a 50mm lens and a visoflex attachment.Is anyone a fan of the visoflex on the M10m?  I am thinking of returning it.  I'm new to the M10 and in my initial test shots I think it may just either not be needed or actually distract.  I am used to autofocus and nervous about this new, but very exciting camera.   If you have used it, in what circumstances was it valuable?  

The 020 Visoflex comes in for a lot of stick, but on occasion I find it very useful. It's by no means perfect, and it's not as good as the SL's viewfinder, but when you're trying to focus a fast lens wide open (eg Noctilux, Summilux 75 or 80-R) it's extremely helpful. I wouldn't dream of doing a portrait session on an M without it. And of course if you want to use non-M lenses you can only use LiveView, and then the EVF is infinitely better to use than the rear screen. Its hinged structure also means that you can view the shot from above the camera, which makes low-level shots much easier to achieve.

LiveView, and with the 020 in particular, does eat up batteries - so if you're going to use it much you really do need at least one spare battery.

I prefer using the RF on an M if I can - but it's not always practical.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Musotographer

[Jeff S]

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22 hours ago, DonnaW said:

Is anyone a fan of the visoflex on the M10m?  I am thinking of returning it.  I'm new to the M10 and in my initial test shots I think it may just either not be needed or actually distract.  I am used to autofocus and nervous about this new, but very exciting camera.   If you have used it, in what circumstances was it valuable?  

A frequently discussed subject around here, with strong opinions about M viewing, including those wanting an EVF based M (an oxymoron to some given that ‘M’ is an abbreviation for the German word for rangefinder). A non-electronic Visoflex has been an accessory for film M’s for decades; some call the modern M EVF an ‘Electronic VisoFlex’. 
 

No right or wrong, but count me in the camp that uses an M with RF only, most always with lenses from 28 to 50 (with occasional but brief  use with 75 or 90).  No Noctiluxes wanted. This has been true for me since the 80’s, using other systems for complementary needs. In the digital world, the SL2 meets all my needs that the M cannot.  Different systems, different use cases and different shooting experiences. I’ll always have an M as long as my eyesight cooperates with the RF.

Jeff

[insomnigraphic]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:53 PM, gotium said:

<oh dear. I misunderstood the question>

The high iso performance of the M10M is just nutty. Never seen anything like it. 

Agreed. Never seen 12500 look so smooth.

[DonnaW]

I returned the Vioflex and I am now returning the match technical eyecup.  I find the magnification available on the m10-M superb by itself.  It just takes getting used to.  The eyecup is not compatible with the leica diopter.  The whole focusing issue I am starting to feel is overblown after exploring and experimenting more with the camera.  I was an autofocus user for 40 years prior but find the manual focus a relief in some ways.  I feel back in control as I was before autofocus was invented.  The M10-M is amazing.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, DonnaW said:

I returned the Vioflex and I am now returning the match technical eyecup.  I find the magnification available on the m10-M superb by itself.  It just takes getting used to.  The eyecup is not compatible with the leica diopter.  The whole focusing issue I am starting to feel is overblown after exploring and experimenting more with the camera.  I was an autofocus user for 40 years prior but find the manual focus a relief in some ways.  I feel back in control as I was before autofocus was invented.  The M10-M is amazing.

As I commented above, RF focusing works fine for me; no EVF or magnifier needed or wanted. But it’s important for optimal M focusing to have properly corrected eyesight (especially with any astigmatism). A magnifier will only magnify vision problems. I correct for distance and astigmatism via eyeglasses (the M focus patch is set at a virtual distance of 2m on all M bodies). The M10 and its variants are easier on eyeglass wearers due to the improved VF, which is larger in diameter, has higher magnification and better eye relief than earlier digital M models. But due to aging eyes, I also now benefit from a small +.5 diopter (in addition to my glasses), which takes focusing from very good to optimal for me.  A diopter can be a useful tool for some M users, unlike other VF accessories like magnifiers.
 

Jeff