50mm SL Summicron APO vs 50 M Summicron APO lenses

[Cheri]

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Which lens is better on sharpness, focus, bokeh etc.

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[John McMaster]

Hard to tell on an S body, neither will fit 😉

john

[Stuart Richardson]

According to the MTF, the SL lens is the sharper lens. I have not used the 50mm APO Summicron M, but I have the SL lens and it is the sharpest lens I have ever used, along with the 120mm APO Macro Elmarit S. The SL lens is also cheaper than the M version by quite a margin. I found the bokeh of the SL lens very neutral...smooth and not distracting. The focus speed is very quick and noise is low on the SL2. A number of the lenses have very stiff focus rings though, so if you buy one, it might be best to check first if you can.

All this said, even though there are price differences and performance differences, I would recommend getting the lens to match whichever body you use. If you use both, the M might be the better choice, but you give up autofocus on the SL. In my experience, the AF of something like the SL2 is quicker and more accurate than most people's vision.

The M version is obviously the one to get if you want to use an M camera most of the time.

[Jeff S]

This should be moved out of the S forum section.  But the issue has been discussed in the SL forum, including video from Peter Karbe, who explains that the SL Summicrons outperform (technical measurement parameters) the M counterparts and represent his best design efforts. Whether someone prefers the rendering of one or the other, or more subjective matters like bokeh, is another matter.  Focus differences obviously involve the camera and viewing system (and user technique), not just the lens.  Live view, directly off sensor focus, avoids RF/lens calibration issues, and the SL’s EVF clearly outperforms the M’s Visoflex.  Some still, however, prefer M RF focusing.  
 

I personally prefer using my M lenses (including the 50 APO), on my M bodies (M10 and M Monochrom), and my SL lenses on my SL2. The SL 75 APO is my best lens from a measurement standpoint, especially on the 47MP body, but that doesn’t make it my best or most preferred lens choice for all situations.  And if my pictures suck, it’s never because of the lens, all of which are remarkably capable.  

Jeff

[Chaemono]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Cheri:

Which lens is better on sharpness, focus, bokeh etc.

Hard to say because I suspect the SL primes are software corrected, the M lenses aren’t. Focusing is fast and precise with both. Both are excellent but the glasses of the Leica S “is sick.”

Edited July 19, 2020 by Chaemono

[John Smith]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Hard to say because I suspect the SL primes are software corrected, the M lenses aren’t. Focusing is fast and precise with both. Both are excellent but the glasses of the Leica S “is sick.”

Great interview with Peter Karbe. Lots of information about M and SL lenses. Entertains a question at the end, whether S or SL lenses are “better.” Speaking from a technical point of view, says that SL lenses are state of the art. 

[Stuart Richardson]

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It is not a secret...look at the MTF. All else being equal, the bigger the lens, the easier it is to make it better. Given that both these lenses are 50mm APO f2 no-compromises lenses made by the same company and designed by the same set of optical engineers, it stands to reason that the bigger, more recent one is better technically. Leica has indicated as much. That doesn’t help you if you want to use a lens on an M camera...get the M for an M body and an SL one for the SL body. 
if you need absolutely no compromise image quality, get a 100-150mp camera with a lens that can handle the resolution.  

[helged]

6 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

It is not a secret...look at the MTF. All else being equal, the bigger the lens, the easier it is to make it better. Given that both these lenses are 50mm APO f2 no-compromises lenses made by the same company and designed by the same set of optical engineers, it stands to reason that the bigger, more recent one is better technically. Leica has indicated as much. That doesn’t help you if you want to use a lens on an M camera...get the M for an M body and an SL one for the SL body. 
if you need absolutely no compromise image quality, get a 100-150mp camera with a lens that can handle the resolution.  

+1. 

Based on own experience over some years, but without formal testing, the 50mm APO-Cron-M is optically unbeatable when it comes to small, pocketable lenses. It's really impressive what Leica has managed to put into that smallish body! Furthermore, that the SL-primes are as close to optical/technical perfection as you get in Leica-land, improving on the best of the best M-lenses. And finally, that the S-lenses produce the most pleasing images for my eyes; blending high-quality optics with a touch of Mandler-magic.

So if I want to go light, I would chose 50 APO-Cron-M (added bonus is that the 50 APO-Cron-M is also doing fine on a L-body). For no compromise, I go for a/any SL-prime. And if I had to chose one lens, without consideration of the system or versatility or budget, I would chose an S-lens, so 70mm-S for a close to 50mm reach on a FF-sensor...

Or to quote @Steve Ash from another thread : "I know the whole discussion is somewhat meaningless as we are spoiled anyway."

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by helged

[LeicaR10]

Helged,  +1 Your explanation is spot on.  r/ Mark

[tom0511]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb helged:

+1. 

Based on own experience over some years, but without formal testing, the 50mm APO-Cron-M is optically unbeatable when it comes to small, pocketable lenses. It's really impressive what Leica has managed to put into that smallish body! Furthermore, that the SL-primes are as close to optical/technical perfection as you get in Leica-land, improving on the best of the best M-lenses. And finally, that the S-lenses produce the most pleasing images for my eyes; blending high-quality optics with a touch of Mandler-magic.

So if I want to go light, I would chose 50 APO-Cron-M (added bonus is that the 50 APO-Cron-M is also doing fine on a L-body). For no compromise, I go for a/any SL-prime. And if I had to chose one lens, without consideration of the system or versatility or budget, I would chose an S-lens, so 70mm-S for a close to 50mm reach on a FF-sensor...

Or to quote @Steve Ash from another thread : "I know the whole discussion is somewhat meaningless as we are spoiled anyway."

I see it absolutly the same way.

[mgrayson3]

Apparently, the title of this forum is now:

This section is dedicated to everything around the S-System: LEICA S2, LEICA S-E (Type 006) , LEICA S (Type 007) and LEICA S3 and .. oh forget it We're so bored we'll discuss ANYTHING

😝

Edited July 20, 2020 by mgrayson3

[djmay]

1 hour ago, mgrayson3 said:

Apparently, the title of this forum is now:

This section is dedicated to everything around the S-System: LEICA S2, LEICA S-E (Type 006) , LEICA S (Type 007) and LEICA S3 and .. oh forget it We're so bored we'll discuss ANYTHING

😝

Maybe this is the place to get straight answers.

[mgrayson3]

3 hours ago, djmay said:

Maybe this is the place to get straight answers.

Oh, don't mind me. I'm actually impressed that no one has complained about "proper fora". You are quite right about this place.

Edited July 20, 2020 by mgrayson3