elmars Posted July 16, 2020 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had the chance to be a betatester for the M10-R firmware. To sum it up: The M10-R is a M10-P that looks like a M10 with a fantastic new sensor: Higher resolution, so that You can make heavy crops easily. Higher dynamic range (nearly 1 f-stop, I would guess) for good highlights. And better colors. Noise is very good, better than with the M10: More detail, beautiful fine grain. High ISO is also slightly better than with the M10. Very good usable up to 6400 ISO; 12500 ISO is still good usable. Above that there is too much color shift and details are lost. The rangefinder is the same as in the M10/M10-M. No problems with focussing at this resolution. The camera was perfectly calibrated with my Apo-Summicron 2,0/50 mm. I had no problems focussing in practice too. And I never noticed anything negative due to the higher resolution of the sensor: Not more blur, no need for higher shutter speed to avoid blur, no problems with sharpness. AWB was a bit cooler than with the M10. No problem for me, I like it. But Leica said to us they want to make it alike the other cameras of the M-line. This was one result of our firmware betatest. General usability is as good as the M10. Same silent shutter and touchscreen, only a little bit slower in saving pictures due to the bigger data volume. But that doesn´t matter to me. Firmware stability is good, no freezing. The M10 in all it´s variants is the best usual M-camera - but: Wake up time is far too long!!!! 1,5 sec!!! And the timelag when shooting in LV mode is too long too. Does one need the higher resolution: It is an advantage, no doubt. I made a few comparisons with the the M10. You can see the difference, but it is not eye-catching, You have to look close at cropped photos. Then You see that the ones oft he M10-R are sharper and have more crisp. For many this may be a strong reason to buy this camera. For me it is more the higher dynamic range and the better color. Here are some pictures taken with the M10-R for my ongoing series about my hometown Mönchengladbach. Perhaps it is not everyones style, but don´t blame the camera for it. The M10-R is fantastic! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4009677'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 Hi elmars, Take a look here M10-R with a fantastic new sensor. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elmars Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #2 Posted July 16, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4009680'>More sharing options...
elmars Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted July 16, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4009682'>More sharing options...
elmars Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted July 16, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4009685'>More sharing options...
yggdra.omega Posted July 16, 2020 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks for the insight, I enjoyed reading your perspective! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohthx1r Posted July 16, 2020 Share #6 Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks, I guess I will give it a pass since I have the original M10. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 16, 2020 Share #7 Posted July 16, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can the touchscreen be deactivated to avoid unintended actions (nose or other)? This has been reported as an issue by some M10-P users. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr No Posted July 16, 2020 Share #8 Posted July 16, 2020 Sounds like a great additions to the offerings. Well done Leica! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted July 16, 2020 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) vor 3 Stunden schrieb elmars: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I really like this one ... Edited July 16, 2020 by cp995 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted July 17, 2020 vor 10 Stunden schrieb Jeff S: Can the touchscreen be deactivated to avoid unintended actions (nose or other)? This has been reported as an issue by some M10-P users. Jeff The touchscreen cannot be deactivated. But I think this is unnecessary. I had no problems with it and heared from none. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edax Posted July 17, 2020 Share #11 Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, elmars said: The touchscreen cannot be deactivated. But I think this is unnecessary. I had no problems with it and heared from none. This week it happened to me again, M10-P refusing to release the shutter until I lifted my right thumb off the touchscreen. Unexpected, extremely annoying and unwanted behaviour. What exactly happened during the few times that I ran into this, I really don’t know, difficult to reproduce. It is easy however to bring the M10-P into a state where the shutter refuses to fire; press play, zoom in on the displayed picture with two finger touch, and while still zooming press the release button. Nothing happens. An option to disable the touchscreen would only be a workaround, this is a bug and should be fixed. Back to the M10-R, thank you for posting these pictures. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted July 17, 2020 Share #12 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Some will disagree for sure, but the sweet spot for 35mm digital sensor is 24MP in my opinion. Given the surface area of the sensor is the same for all the M10 variants, it suggests to me that upping from 24 to 40MP reduces the size of the photo receptors, hence the capacity of each quantum well. If one knew all the variables (obviously I’m not privy to the details) the optimum could be established with some rudimentary calculus. Is the design of the M10R relying on the processing engine to make up the shortfall, and if so how can processing replace real data (quanta) without interpolation? Edited July 17, 2020 by Steve Ricoh 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted July 17, 2020 In the german forum is an interview with Stefan Daniel from Leica. He explained why it was possible to enlarge the pixel numbers without loss of quality. Each pixel, though smaller, has a greater active area. My English is too bad to explain it better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted July 17, 2020 Share #14 Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, elmars said: In the german forum is an interview with Stefan Daniel from Leica. He explained why it was possible to enlarge the pixel numbers without loss of quality. Each pixel, though smaller, has a greater active area. My English is too bad to explain it better. Based on the lay-terms description from Stefan it sounded like the M10-R/M10-M/S3 sensor might be BSI but the M10/M10-P sensor is FSI. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted July 17, 2020 Share #15 Posted July 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, onasj said: Based on the lay-terms description from Stefan it sounded like the M10-R/M10-M/S3 sensor might be BSI but the M10/M10-P sensor is FSI. Pure guesswork, but if I was inclined to bet my money would be on BSI. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 17, 2020 Share #16 Posted July 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said: Some will disagree for sure, but the sweet spot for 35mm digital sensor is 24MP in my opinion. Given the surface area of the sensor is the same for all the M10 variants, it suggests to me that upping from 24 to 40MP reduces the size of the photo receptors, hence the capacity of each quantum well. If one knew all the variables (obviously I’m not privy to the details) the optimum could be established with some rudimentary calculus. Is the design of the M10R relying on the processing engine to make up the shortfall, and if so how can processing replace real data (quanta) without interpolation? No, as Stefan Daniel explains... Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted September 3, 2021 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2021 On 7/16/2020 at 3:22 PM, elmars said: I had the chance to be a betatester for the M10-R firmware. To sum it up: The M10-R is fantastic! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I see a lot of moiré. > I understood moiré comes from a lens projecting a fine array smaller that the pixel size. So the res is still not high enough 🤭 Is it easy to polish it away in LR for instance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted September 3, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted September 3, 2021 I think the moire comes from downsizing for the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budjames Posted September 14, 2021 Share #19 Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) I really like my M10-R. The amazing detail of the higher density sensor, as compared to the M10, allows for "zooming" by cropping with ease and excellent results. That said, I notice a problem with ISOs over 3000 with hot pixels in the underexposed shadows. I tried processing the DNG files with Capture One Pro 21, Affinity Photo and Photo RAW 2021. The resulting images all exhibit the exact same issue so it's not a RAW processing issue. Please see attached example enlarged to 600%. I emailed samples to Leica technical support in Avondale, NJ, last week, but have not had a reply. I called yesterday to follow up and was greeting with a voice mail message that due to staffing changes, emails and phone calls would not be returned promptly. That's not good! Has anyone else seen this with their M10-Rs? Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 14, 2021 by budjames Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4275043'>More sharing options...
budjames Posted September 14, 2021 Share #20 Posted September 14, 2021 Here are more example of the hot pixel issue. Regards, Bud James Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311405-m10-r-with-a-fantastic-new-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=4275045'>More sharing options...
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