Goodbye Solms?

[earleygallery]

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Rui, not something I've thought about before, but presumably the new premises in Wetzlar are larger than Solms?

 

If so then maybe Leica are indeed thinking of centralising the business?

 

I'm guessing they established the plant in Portugal originally due to lower costs at that time, now of course wages and cost of living accross the Euro zone are much more aligned so Portugal can't represent much of a cost saving anymore. A Leica plant in India or China would make more sense (from a cost point of view only, I'm not saying I think its something they should do, and it would have some impact on the brand value if M/R products were produced in the Far East given the higher prices compared to the PanaLeica product - and yes I know that some R zooms were made in Japan, but s/h the 35/70 3.5 usually goes for about half the price of the German version which is a case in point).

 

Of course there are other factors such as the experienced staff. Is anyone aware of any statements from Leica on this subject?

[Guest Olof]

I hope this production still remains in Portugal even if Leica moves back to Wetzlar.

I stay there in 2003 and I have one great friend mine who works on the factory.

For the employees and for my country this factory is most important.

I hope Leica still remains in Portugal for many years to come.

 

Best,

 

What are they producing in Portugal ?

[elansprint72]

Thanks Jerry it was one of my do not talk about but since it is out than that is what we were told

 

?? I read about this in the UK daily press 3-4 months ago, OK it was on some obscure financial page, but hardly a secret.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Who knows but that is how it was described to us that don't read the daily's I guess. We actually saw the spot where it is going. leica likes to keep there secrets.

[ruiespanhol]

What are they producing in Portugal ?

 

They produce all the Sportoptics products range,parts for cameras and lenses,make sub-assemblys for M and R cameras.

Many others things are made there like logistics and control of parts supplied for the Leica camera group.

Some parts and assembly work of the M8 and DMR is also made there.

When I stay there in 2003 they made the M7 near 80% and the R9 in the same %.

Only the final assembly and adjust is made in Solms.

This not means lack of know how or experience of Portuguese workers only strategic question of Leica camera.

 

Best,

 

Rui

[ruiespanhol]

Rui, not something I've thought about before, but presumably the new premises in Wetzlar are larger than Solms?

 

If so then maybe Leica are indeed thinking of centralising the business?

 

I'm guessing they established the plant in Portugal originally due to lower costs at that time, now of course wages and cost of living accross the Euro zone are much more aligned so Portugal can't represent much of a cost saving anymore. A Leica plant in India or China would make more sense (from a cost point of view only, I'm not saying I think its something they should do, and it would have some impact on the brand value if M/R products were produced in the Far East given the higher prices compared to the PanaLeica product - and yes I know that some R zooms were made in Japan, but s/h the 35/70 3.5 usually goes for about half the price of the German version which is a case in point).

 

Of course there are other factors such as the experienced staff. Is anyone aware of any statements from Leica on this subject?

 

The experienced staff is one very strong point in favour of Portuguese plant.

They made cameras and lenses for more 30 years and for making cameras and lenses like Leica this is very important.

Only after one visit and see what I see you or any person understant this.

Go to Solms or coming to Portugal and visit the plant.

 

Best,

 

Rui

[earleygallery]

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Well, my R3 was made in Portugal - never been serviced and working perfectly. Quality wise its on a par with the other Leica Wetzlar cameras I own.

 

Hopefully the new plant is for further expansion and not consolidation.

[Joop van Heijgen]

They produce all the Sportoptics products range,parts for cameras and lenses,make sub-assemblys for M and R cameras.

Many others things are made there like logistics and control of parts supplied for the Leica camera group.

Some parts and assembly work of the M8 and DMR is also made there.

When I stay there in 2003 they made the M7 near 80% and the R9 in the same %.

Only the final assembly and adjust is made in Solms.

This not means lack of know how or experience of Portuguese workers only strategic question of Leica camera.

 

Best,

 

Rui

 

"They produce all the Sportoptics products range,parts for cameras and lenses,make sub-assemblys for M and R cameras."

 

For many years (since '77) the greater part of the camera production takes place in Portugal. For instance the M6 ,M 7, M8, R8, R9, are all made in Portugal.

The finishing touch takes place in Solms.

 

Then they can put 'made in Germany' on the camera's box!

 

In fact there is no difference in quality with the 'German' cameras. The Leica quality standards are the same! Also for the production plant in Canada!

 

The name Wetzlar and 'made in Germany' has to do with psychological factors and goes back to the '50 en '60 the time of the production of the famous M3, M2 and M4 cameras...

 

Leica (Leitz) can move its plant from Solms to Wetzlar again, but in practice they must produce the (sub)assemblys for the M and R cameras elsewhere (abroad) to produce at lower costs. The german wages belongs to the highest in the world!

 

Portugal will remain an important production plant for Leica!

Besides this production in Asia will be inevitable!

[sdai]

Portugal will remain an important production plant for Leica!

Besides this production in Asia will be inevitable!

 

We shouldn't care where they're made as long as Leica manufacturing standard and QC are guaranteed.

[ho_co]

Only the final assembly and adjust is made in Solms.

This not means lack of know how or experience of Portuguese workers only strategic question of Leica camera.

 

Not only experience, but pride in doing the job.

 

I never visited Leitz Portugal, but shortly after the plant opened, a Wetzlar employee acquaintance did, and reported that some of the workers showed him some workflow design changes they had introduced. "Better than the German way," they reported.

 

Leica is a point of view--Midland, Solms, Wetzlar, Portugal--you don't work for Leica if you don't see things their (our) way.

 

--HC

[Joop van Heijgen]

We shouldn't care where they're made as long as Leica manufacturing standard and QC are guaranteed.

 

I agree.

 

But,

The 'German' imago is very important for Leica and its customers!

[marknorton]

This is what the annual report 2006 said (probably the last we'll see now that Leica is essentially private):

 

"The manufacuring process will be optimised with special attention to the "Made in Germany" label. In particular, the German business location is to advance its assembly and testing facilities. The Portugese location has to be given more independence and in the medium term must be developed into an OEM supplier - not just for Leica Camera Group".

 

As Steve says, Portugal is no longer the low cost manufacturing base it once was and, if still true, this comment suggests a weakening role in camera production. Increasingly, Leica will sub-contract out manufacturing to the huge network of suppliers in Germany. I doubt they do any electronic assemby themselves. The circuit boards come in fully assembled and tested (if not calibrated). My "anatomy" showed how the complete back of the camera could come in ready-assembled with display, buttons, DSP board, all tested and ready to go.

 

The MP and M7 may still be made in Portugal - if they are still being made at all - but the M8 is much less labour intensive to make, so doing it in one place makes more sense. The days of women in Portugal sewing the shutter curtains I'm afraid, are behind us.

[gberger]

My IIIc was made in Wetzlar, ther lenses for my M4 in Canada, my CLE was made in Japan, my M6 was largely manufactured in Portugal, and my BMW was made in South Carolina, USA.

 

So What? It's the Quality Control staff members that the Germans install in the various manufacturing facilities - - wherever located - - that make the final difference.

[ruiespanhol]

I agree.

 

But,

The 'German' imago is very important for Leica and its customers!

 

This is the main reason why the final assembly and adjust/test was done in Solms.

There put ´´Made in Germany`` label but the major work was done in Portugal and that is the true.

The Portuguese workers spend near 11 hours for made one M7 or R9 and in Germany they only spend one or two hours to complete then.

I do not agree when Steve K.lee says Portugal was no longer low cost manuf. country.

look around Europe and will see here in Portugal they work more tham all the European countrys and get less money then the German,french,English and so on.

When compares whit China or other countrys in Asia maybe this cam be true but in portugal we have experienced workers who knows the job better then yours hands.

And the quality of Portuguese manuf. is famous all over the World.

 

Best,

[ruiespanhol]

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[leicapages]

I believe Leica better keeps its production sites as it is: Germany and Portugal and not go the China route.

 

Let me summarize this way: even if the quality were the same, would you buy a Leica "made in China" at the same price point as today? I am sure few users would actually do.

[Joop van Heijgen]

I believe Leica better keeps its production sites as it is: Germany and Portugal and not go the China route.

 

Let me summarize this way: even if the quality were the same, would you buy a Leica "made in China" at the same price point as today? I am sure few users would actually do.

 

After then Leica put the 'China' Leica in a box in Germany and they can write on it:

'made in Germany'

[leicabug]

I am sure that many Leica components are already made and assembled in China. Leica will try its best to legally claim the label "made in Germany," The flow chart is like this: China-Portugal-Germany. China will get bigger piece of pie each year. Want 100% German? Vintage(pre-50's) Leicas.

[marknorton]

Well, I can see standard parts made in Korea, Singapore, Taiwan on the M8 board; the sensor comes from Kodak, presumably Rochester, NY, the magnesium alloy casting is said to come from Leica Portugal. The motor comes from a Japanese company but could be made in China and the shutter comes from Japanese manufacturer Copal.

 

As for what else comes from China, it's impossible to say, but China tends to suit higher volumes than Leica are doing. Leica seem to be making around 1000 M8s a month, Nikon are ramping up to 60000 D300s a month from Thailand.

 

Incidentally, I noticed looking at a "behind the scenes" picture of the Nikon plant in Sendai, north Japan where they build their top of the line cameras, a parts tray with "Copal" on it, so it's likely Nikon buys from the same company. No point making your own shutter when someone else can do it for you, providing the price and quality are right.

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[ho_co]

Interesting comment regarding Copal, Mark. I had remarked before that the specs--flash synch, top speed--are the same on the D200 as on the M8 and hand wondered if they might come from the same source.

 

--HC