J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #21  Posted February 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) WB set to Auto in LR.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907843'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Hi J.Nordvik, Take a look here White balance through warm lenses on digital cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #22  Posted February 7, 2020 AWB in camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907844'>More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #23 Â Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, J.Nordvik said: Three 50mm lenses:Â 5cm Elmar, Jupiter 8, Zeiss Planar ZM. WB set to Daylight in LR. Auto Tone. Thank you! I have two questions: 1. What does Auto Tune mean? 2. What are the Temperature and Tint values of each raw file? (Is the AWB somewhat counteracting the different lenses?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #24 Â Posted February 7, 2020 Auto TONE, not Tune. Tone is under WB in the Basic panel in LR. AWB (in camera) 6150/-13, 5950/3, 6500/-3 (clockwise) Auto WB in LR: 7150/0, 6950/6, 7500/1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted February 7, 2020 Share #25  Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Three shots taken on M typ 240, Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH. AWB set in camera, first with no filter, second with a slightly blue transparency held in front of the little circular window near the red dot, third with a slightly yellow transparency. illumination is bright sunlight. Exposure is 1/2000 at f4. The filtered shots report the aperture as 1.4, the clear one as 4.8. In lightroom: clear is temp 4750, tint -3 blue is temp 4400, tint +6 yellow is 4800, tint +2 Measuring WB in Lightroom using the third square in the bottom row of the clear shot gives 4600, tint +4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looks like the window plays a role in colour temperature estimation. Edited February 7, 2020 by Exodies 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looks like the window plays a role in colour temperature estimation. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907873'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 7, 2020 Share #26  Posted February 7, 2020 Auto White Balance is a form of pirates code - its guidance😉. And as with anything set automatically, it may or may not be acceptable and may be influenced by a whole series of factors as has been described in this thread. However its worth pointing out that the 'colour of a lens', which is actually a descriptor which indicates that a lens is only selectively transparent and actually removes colour not adds to it, can be reinforced by the illuminants and colours within a scene. Also neutrals can be notoriously fickle and what seems like a small shift in the scene or illuminants or filter or lens colour or whatever, can make a perceptible difference to the image produced. And as most images are judged subjectively its difficult to determine what, if anything, are or could be absolutes. In the example above its worth dragging the cursor over the grey areas and seeing the rgb values shift in shadows, midtones and highlights which will probably show slight variation. Trying to adjust everything to neutralise all these without affecting something else is tricky. As I copy artworks I do try to create as neutrally balanced files as I can and I can often get close but I rarely, if ever, achieve perfection. Most artists are happy with a reproduction which sits well alongside the original. FWIW I try to use natural 'cloudy bright illumination simply because it offers soft light with a more continuous spectrum than most if not all lighting, and I find the files easier to adjust to 'match' the original artwork. Photography is rarely about absolutes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #27  Posted February 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here I have used profiles made with a ColorChecker, Daylight in LR. Something went wrong with the profiles. I think they were made with X-Rite, I prefer Adobe Profile Editor. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907889'>More sharing options...
otto.f Posted February 7, 2020 Share #28  Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, pgk said: Photography is rarely about absolutes. Yeah, the other day I watched an exposition of Monet’s work. The photo’s my wife took with her iPhone were better than his paintings 🤣. Just joking. But it is true that as in music our taste is also modernized, read oversaturared, in 100 years time. I find the SL2 an illustration of that. Edited February 7, 2020 by otto.f Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #29  Posted February 7, 2020 Made a new profile with Adobe Profile Editor. Adobe left, X-Rite right. Elmar. Daylight in LR.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907923'>More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #30  Posted February 7, 2020 Jupiter. Daylight in LR. Adobe left, X-Rite right.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907924'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7, 2020 Share #31  Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Exodies said: Three shots taken on M typ 240, Summilux-M 1:1.4/35 ASPH. AWB set in camera, first with no filter, second with a slightly blue transparency held in front of the little circular window near the red dot, third with a slightly yellow transparency. illumination is bright sunlight. Exposure is 1/2000 at f4. The filtered shots report the aperture as 1.4, the clear one as 4.8. In lightroom: clear is temp 4750, tint -3 blue is temp 4400, tint +6 yellow is 4800, tint +2 Measuring WB in Lightroom using the third square in the bottom row of the clear shot gives 4600, tint +4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looks like the window plays a role in colour temperature estimation. Could you do a series whilst holding a few different ND filters in front of the the window? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 7, 2020 Share #32 Â Posted February 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, jaapv said: Could you do a series whilst holding a few different ND filters in front of the the window? Or block it completely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #33  Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, pgk said: Or block it completely. I just did some test shots: Some of them with sunlight, some of them with tungsten light. Some of them with a blocked brightness sensor window, some of them without. I was also aware that there is no memory effect, like when the sensor is blocked the camera may record the previous temperature. So I took a sunlight image, then blocked the window and took a tungsten light image. Then another tungsten light image without blocking. Result: The temperature differs only subtly (like 4700-4750 in sunlight, 3200-3250 in tungsten light). What does differ is the estimated aperture: 1.7 instead of 4.0 (with a blocked window). My conclusion is, the brightness sensor is really only for aperture estimation and adjusting the brightness of the illuminated framelines (M240 and higher). 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #34  Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) My M10 has JUST arrived from its CLA in Wetzlar. Here are some fresh test shots taken with this charming lady and Voigtlander Nokton Classic 1.4/35 MC Zeiss ZM C-Biogon 2.8/35 Leica Elmar-M 28/50 In-Camera settings: Base ISO, same aperture (2.8 - 4.0), same shutter speed, Auto white balance, no lens profile. Lightroom settings: Profile: Adobe Color. No lens correction. Cropped to same image section. No further adjustments.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 7, 2020 by raphael Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907989'>More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #35  Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Nokton: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: Edited February 7, 2020 by raphael Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907992'>More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #36  Posted February 7, 2020 Nokton: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907996'>More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #37  Posted February 7, 2020 Nokton: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Biogon:  Elmar: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306161-white-balance-through-warm-lenses-on-digital-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=3907997'>More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share #38  Posted February 7, 2020 To be honest, I don't see much of a difference regarding temperature in these images. The Nokton seems to have a bit more green in the sky and yellow in the grass. Other than that they all look really alike. In addition, there was no difference in the recorded temperature between the lenses. Kelvin and tint values were identical. Maybe @adan was right. The higher contrast of the C-Biogon, especially in the last image with the plants, made me believe the Zeiss is warmer than the Leica or Voigtlander. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7, 2020 Share #39  Posted February 7, 2020 I think Exodies' measurements are within the tolerances. Statistically they are the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Nordvik Posted February 7, 2020 Share #40  Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, raphael said: To be honest, I don't see much of a difference regarding temperature in these images. The Nokton seems to have a bit more green in the sky and yellow in the grass. Other than that they all look really alike. In addition, there was no difference in the recorded temperature between the lenses. Kelvin and tint values were identical. Maybe @adan was right. The higher contrast of the C-Biogon, especially in the last image with the plants, made me believe the Zeiss is warmer than the Leica or Voigtlander. Those lenses are all modern. Mine were a 1941 3,5/ 5cm Leitz Elmar, a 1968 2,0/50 Jupiter 8 and a modern 2,0/50 Zeiss Planar ZM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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