Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 3, 2007 Share #121 Posted August 3, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Great , so send the address for the bar let's have a few. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here *4* New Summarits. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 3, 2007 Share #122 Posted August 3, 2007 Are they going to be harsh and contrasty like the new ASPH lenses or smooth and buttery like the good old days? I think this will be a key element on deciding on buying them. My bet is they will be clean and sharp and be more general purpose looking than lets say a 50 lux and maybe more in the league of the elmarits. It will be interesting to see how they perform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 3, 2007 Share #123 Posted August 3, 2007 Guy: Leica does have a future, just not film. I really believe that current line of fast lenses has no future as they were designed for film. All new lenses from now onwill be designed with digital in mind. The focus shift problem many of you complain about, but I have not experienced will be dealt with in the new lenses. Also, with the ability to change ISO in Digital Cameras, lens speed is less an important factor than with film. Yes Richard you have a good point but i sincerely don't think Leica will not still try and make the best fast wide angles out there. One because that is what they do best and 2 there is a lot of pride in being number 1 . There is also bragging rights and i have to say all the years i have been in this , bragging rights is still huge both with users and OEMS. leica made the best 35-70 2.8 zoom lens for the R line because they wanted to say they had the best there was and it is , no question. But leica only made around 200 hundred of them because it cost more to make than what they could charge. i bought one used last year for 6k and have several friends just sitting on them waiting for a new R10. Bragging rights are a big deal in this industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 3, 2007 Share #124 Posted August 3, 2007 Great , so send the address for the bar let's have a few. LOL You know what ... I was reading those CNET road trip blogs and I was totally astonished at the number of missle launch pads and silos in Arizona, I kept thinking, what if Guy were sitting at one of these consoles in a bunker, would he be distracted by the Leica forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 3, 2007 Share #125 Posted August 3, 2007 ROTFLMAO . Yes i missed a few calls from the top brass to launch a few rockets. Oh Well so you miss a few, they just never stop teasing me down here in this bunker. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent10D Posted August 3, 2007 Share #126 Posted August 3, 2007 The Zeiss lenses have three disadvantages on the M8: they are very contrasty (some want that, but many don't; not to this extent), they are awkward-looking physically in many cases, and they have those weird 1/3-stop detents for the aperture. OK, I'll grant contrasty (but that can be an advantage). As for the look and the 1/3-stop detents, that's just a matter of what you're used to. A lot of Leica newbies (yours truly included) have started with Zeiss lenses, or CV lenses, with the result that Leica lenses can feel uncomfortable at first. Since Zeiss and CV have already been able to enter the gaping hole in the market and establish themselves as great-performing, inexpensive lens alternatives, particularly for newcomers to the Leica camp, it might be difficult to convince some of those potential customers that Leica is a better choice. So I would have to say that all three of the points you mention are primarily "disadvantages" only for experienced Leica users who already have a collection of Leica glass. On the other hand, I have my eye on those new Leica lenses ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 3, 2007 Share #127 Posted August 3, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kent-- You're absolutely correct in all your points. I think the main advantages Leica gets out of this are that the name on the lens matches the lens on the body; that the lenses are in some sense of the word "affordable" (i.e. 'preiswert,' worth the money); and that they work today because they don't require coding or an adapter, and don't require an explanation of why they bring up the 'wrong' frames. The Zeiss and CV lenses are at least excellent buys, and at best comparable to Leica lenses in their performance as well. Now if these new Leica lenses draw the way I expect them to, they'll be a relatively easy sale both to newcomers and to old fogies like me. And since the prices are not out of line with the general range of high-quality Nikon and Canon lenses, there's a greater chance of some dSLR users getting bitten by the same curiosity I did years ago and asking, "What's so special about a Leica?" It means a future for Leica, and more toys for us all. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted August 3, 2007 Share #128 Posted August 3, 2007 Walt i have to disagree with you without revenue they can't build a model airplane. These lenses will bring in many many sales to folks that can't or won't jump on the 3k lenses and look elsewhere besides leica to fill there need. Look on this forum alone and see how many own Zeiss and CV lenses owners. If leica can capture the budget market share than that is revenue they need. no one said they won't continue to bring fast wide angles to market , this just covers a marketing area that leica could not do. This will bring in the low end lenses to M8 users and they will sell a ton of these. But leica in my mind has to continue and i believe they think the same way to keep pushing the envelope for extremely fast wide angles and from my talks with them, they are not sitting down and just taking notes. With Steven Lee in charge there making plans and a future , this guy is hired to make revenue plane and simple. This is one great revenue avenue to pursue that goal. Guy, you don't actually seem to address or disagree with anything I said. I made a post about photographic needs and you (and Sean and others) have posted about Leica's financial needs. Leica is already making a bunch of expensive lenses that don't really belong on a 1.33 crop camera and it sounds as if they're about to make four new ones that also don't belong on that camera. I'd say it would be in Leica's financial interest to learn how to properly make the cameras and lenses already in production. And I would also say--and none of us knows this one way or the other--that it might also be in Leica's interest to demonstrate some creativity rather than try to unimaginitively compete in a market that is already well addressed. Are Leica's financial needs really addressed with a plan to copy a CV lens, the 35/2.5, and sell it at five times the price? Leica was once about photography and about excellence and I would guess their needs might be met by doing that again rather than by chasing markets. When they announce their 35 Summicron IV-size 26mm/2.0 then we'll know that Leica is actually Leica again. Photographically, these new lenses are about as interesting as red crocodile on the M6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 3, 2007 Share #129 Posted August 3, 2007 I suspect these were designed around the M8 and it 1.33 crop factor. I doubt they will work as will with the film cameras, but film is not Leica's future. ...Präzisionsoptiken für die Analog- und Digitalfotografie... I do not read well German... but the announcement quotes rather clearly film cameras too... let's wait to look at the performances (Puts shall have his glorious chance ); I anyway agree that surely, and obviously, the main target is M8 users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 3, 2007 Share #130 Posted August 3, 2007 Also important that they all have a filtersize of 39E or 46E for those ones who have the fast lenses or the older ones. Boen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 3, 2007 Share #131 Posted August 3, 2007 2^6 is only 64 binary possibilities Times 3 for the different framelines = 192 Boen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 3, 2007 Share #132 Posted August 3, 2007 Are Leica's financial needs really addressed with a plan to copy a CV lens, the 35/2.5, and sell it at five times the price? Walt-- Interesting question. Where have you seen a lens diagram of the Summarit 35 to be able to say it is a copy of the CV of the same speed? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted August 3, 2007 Share #133 Posted August 3, 2007 Hi Sean You're going to be real busy appending your reviews with these newbies. Compactness is an advantage, but the most important thing is how thay draw. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 3, 2007 Share #134 Posted August 3, 2007 Also important that they all have a filtersize of 39E or 46E for those ones who have the fast lenses or the older ones. Boen I DID NOT NOTICE IT ! Speaking of DESTINY... with my M8 I ordered an E39 (have number of lenses of this kind) AND an E46... an error I can't explain, I realized that I have no E46 lenses... and thought many times to a 75... there's no story: I now am OBLIGED to buy it ...Christmas present is defined. ...and now I am taking note this is my n° 750 post... definitely one cannot escape the destiny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 3, 2007 Share #135 Posted August 3, 2007 According to the press release photos, these new 90, 75 and 50 Summarits no longer have the actual focal length engraved on the focus ring. Previously, lenses 50mm and longer had the last digit and first decimal of the measured focal length of that particular lens head engraved beyond the infinity end of the scale. As production standards tightened, that became less necessary and in some designs, some samples bore the engraving and others did not. I don't know how that is with the current 50/1.4, 75/2, 90/2, 90/2.8 and 90/4, so the change may already have been effected before now. (I don't know for that matter with the 50/2.8, 50/2 and 50/1 of current production, though both the Summicron and Noctilux previously carried the engraving.) But with the Summarits, Leica has clearly decided to skip what isn't necessary. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted August 3, 2007 Share #136 Posted August 3, 2007 New Leica-Lenses: Summarit-M 2,5/ 35 mm, 1.250 Euro Summarit-M 2,5/ 50 mm, 1.000 Euro Summarit-M 2,5/ 75 mm, 1.250 Euro Summarit-M 2,5/ 90 mm, 1.250 Euro More details (german site): Neue preiswerte Objektivlinie für die M-Leicas: Summarit-M | photoscala 4 new lenses is great news for Leica. The M8 costs approximately the same as all 4 combined - time for an inexpensive camera body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 3, 2007 Share #137 Posted August 3, 2007 And since the prices are not out of line with the general range of high-quality Nikon and Canon lenses, there's a greater chance of some dSLR users getting bitten by the same curiosity I did years ago and asking, "What's so special about a Leica?" I don't know about that. It seems pretty out of line to me. The 35 f2.5 is 1250 Euros which is $1700. Plus the IR filter. A Canon 35 f2 is about $220. For $1619 one could get a 16-35 f2.8 AF model II which would be a lot more useful to many shooters. I think it is fine to prefer top quality gear. But for typical photos with many lenses and cameras at around f5.6 or f8, I think you'd have to really look hard and still may not see significant differences. And if there are any differences will these really matter in the photos that most people shoot? Back in the 60s, Leica primes were priced about the same or just a few dollars more than comparable Nikon lenses. My first Nikon lens when I was a teenager was a 35mm f2.8 that I bought new from Japan for $48 in 1968. It was a great lens and I took some terrific "street photos" with it that I am still proud of. I wouldn't pay $1700 for a lens to shoot those kinds of photos today. I could use one of the cheapest DSLRs or even a p&s. I think Leica has some kind of strategy that I don't quite understand. As Walt said, if they are going to make 4 new lenses, why don't they come out with a series of lenses that are made for the M8 sensor size? They seem to be selling everything they make so they must know their market, but I don't think a whole new crop of users is going to appear because they now can buy a slow 35mm or 50mm for $1400-$1700. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 3, 2007 Share #138 Posted August 3, 2007 Oh, well, 64 or 2000--what's the difference between friends? Sheesh. I better forget quotations. Thanks for the correction! Still, if you add the 3-position frame-selector to the already available 64 IDs, you could theoretically get 512 different codes. But that would mean severe jimmying. OK. 64 it is! --HC 3 * 64 = 192 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 3, 2007 Share #139 Posted August 3, 2007 Are they going to be harsh and contrasty like the new ASPH lenses or smooth and buttery like the good old days? Somewhere in between, I bet. Like the 50 Cron and 90 Elmarit. Emphasis on nice drawing rather than bleeding-edge performance. I have said this a couple of months ago already, but when I read the interview with Stephen K. Lee in LFI, I got the distinct feeling that we have been witness to Leica's technological peak, and that in the future, the emphasis will be somewhere other than the absolute "best" lenses according to some very technical definition. During the Hermes years, it seems that the marketing department was selling Leica cameras partly as accessories, with Leica-á-la-carte and so on, whereas the technical department went further and further in this excellence-no-matter-the-cost. I don't think it will continue in this direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 3, 2007 Share #140 Posted August 3, 2007 OK, I'll grant contrasty (but that can be an advantage). As for the look and the 1/3-stop detents, that's just a matter of what you're used to. A lot of Leica newbies (yours truly included) have started with Zeiss lenses, or CV lenses, with the result that Leica lenses can feel uncomfortable at first. Since Zeiss and CV have already been able to enter the gaping hole in the market and establish themselves as great-performing, inexpensive lens alternatives, particularly for newcomers to the Leica camp, it might be difficult to convince some of those potential customers that Leica is a better choice. You could be right in some sense, but the 1/3-stop detents is not an advantage in any way. The shutter speeds move in 1/2-stops, so when trying to meter, there is a distinct imbalance. I presume the Digital-Ikon, if and when it comes, will allow setting the shutter speeds in 1/3-stops, but for me, this is just too much detail. 1/2 stop is plenty accuracy, and I prefer focusing on the subject, pun and all, to fiddling around with 1/3 stops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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