Make ICC for print

[tom24]

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Hello

 

I ask for your opinions and experience, please.

 

Photo printing has taken over a lot of me, so I'm going to think about it a little more.

I planing to get X-Rite to make own icc profiles for printing.

 

What's the best calibrator for making accurate icc profiles for printing? Mainly for black and white photography (to get better results than icc paper manufacturer profiles).

i1 Studio or i1 Photo pro 2

(i1 Studio has the ability to calibrate in cmyk i1 Photo Pro but does not - so far i dont know if i will need cmyk)

 

Which is the most accurate and performs better than the paper manufacturer's profiles.

 

 

What advice do you have - what kind of calibrator to buy?

 

Your opinions?

 

Thank you very much.

 

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[Jeff S]

Per your PM, you don’t need to make your own profiles with IP Black, as they are included with the software for easy download (including grey scale for b/w).   And they are superb. Save time and money on profiling gear. Colobyte uses better profiling gear than you’d likely buy, and they use thousands of color swatches for each profile specific to your model printer.  Plus they have years of experience you don’t.  Custom profiling is not plug and play; it takes knowledge and experience to do it well.

You might read chapter 6 of the manual..

https://www.colorbytesoftware.com/BLACK/ImagePrint_BLACK_Manual.pdf

Jeff

Edited September 5, 2019 by Jeff S

[zeitz]

Tom, how many different paper types do you plan on using?  I agree with Jeff on this topic that ImagePrint is the most expeditious route.  I do not use ImagePrint only because my value-added Canon iPF dealer makes custom profiles for their customers, and I only use three papers.

Also you do not say what printer and print software you are using.  When I owned a Canon Pixma Pro dye ink model, my Canon iPF dealer could not generate a profile because none of the print drivers would allow printing without a profile applied.  That's why he only sells iPF pigment ink models; the iPF models use Canon's Print Studio plug-in which can print with no profile applied.  I got rid of the Pixma and got an iPF specifically for this reason.  The print size also has to be 13 x 19 in; his X-rite device doesn't work with smaller size prints.

FInally, one word of advice from my Canon iPF dealer.  He says none of the printer manufacturers make their own papers; they only sell paper from vendors in the printer manufacturer's own packaging.  So the paper can vary as suppliers change.  Thus he says to stick to the major paper manufacturers to get consistent results.  I have verified that Canon does not make paper; I'm not so sure about Epson.  I'm not sure how often ImagePrint retests its profiles.

 

[Jeff S]

IP now supports various Canon Pro models in addition to Epsons. Specific models listed...

https://www.colorbytesoftware.com/

Jeff

[zeitz]

This is hard for the shopper to know because I cannot find a coherent list of supported printers or papers on Colorbytes webstie.  There is not even a search option that I could find.  Canon uses the name "Pro" for nearly every printer they make, so searching on Canon Pro is insufficient.  The dye ink printer I had was a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 Mark II.   I did a word search in the Black Manual you referenced above.  These words are not in the manual.  The pigment ink iPF Pro x000 series printers are in the manual.  I also could not find the words Pictorico or Exhibition Fiber in the manual.  I guess I could download the trial version to know if the papers I use are included.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, zeitz said:

This is hard for the shopper to know because I cannot find a coherent list of supported printers or papers on Colorbytes webstie.  There is not even a search option that I could find.  Canon uses the name "Pro" for nearly every printer they make, so searching on Canon Pro is insufficient.  The dye ink printer I had was a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 Mark II.   I did a word search in the Black Manual you referenced above.  These words are not in the manual.  The pigment ink iPF Pro x000 series printers are in the manual.  I also could not find the words Pictorico or Exhibition Fiber in the manual.  I guess I could download the trial version to know if the papers I use are included.

Here’s an excerpt from the link I provided.  Go to IP Black, where it says that it supports many printers and click on the ‘i’ icon to open the information page.....

13" Printers

Epson P600 | 2880 | 2400 | 2200

17" Printers

Canon Pro-1000
Epson P5000 | P800 | 4900 | 4880 | 3880 | 4800 | 3800 | 4000

24" Printers

Canon Pro-2000
Epson P7000 | P6000 | 7900 | 7890 | 7880 | 7800 | 7600

44" Printers

Canon Pro-4000
Epson P10000 | P9000 | P8000 | 9900 | 9890 | 9880 | 9800 | 9600

64" Printers

Canon Pro-6000
Epson P20000 | 11880

 

 

 

 

[Jeff S]

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And IP Black provides thousands of profiles, for virtually all papers and lighting conditions. In fact, they’ll make one for you if it’s not listed (unlikely).

You could also download a free trial version and see for yourself (although you’ll get a big watermark over prints). 

Again, call or email them for these or other questions.  They provide excellent support.

Jeff

Edited September 5, 2019 by Jeff S

[tom24]

Thanks for the opinions.

I'm using the Epson SC-P800. I'm printing from Photoshop and Lightroom  (using icc paper manufacturers profiles).

I think I'll try IP.

Regards

[zeitz]

There are no Canon dye ink printers on the list, Jeff.  And I don't see Tom's Epson SC-P800, unless it is the same as an Epson P800.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, zeitz said:

There are no Canon dye ink printers on the list, Jeff.  And I don't see Tom's Epson SC-P800, unless it is the same as an Epson P800.

I said earlier it supported Canon Pro models. I wouldn’t use dye inks, and most don’t.  Until recently, IP only supported Epsons, but they responded to customer buying habits and popular models.  

And, yes, the P800 is the same... SC merely stands for SureColor, their new inkset branding... it’s the machine I use.... terrific. (European models also sometimes have different numbering.)  The P600 and P800 are probably the two most popular consumer Pro models... IP would be crazy not to support.

Jeff

Edited September 6, 2019 by Jeff S

[zeitz]

There are many Canon printers labeled Pro models, including the Pro-1, Pro-10 and Pro-100 along with the older Pixma Pro 9000 and Pro 9900.  These are dye ink printers.  Many folks use Canon dye inks.  Canon's iPF pigment ink sales are minuscule compared to their dye ink printer sales.  I got rid of my pigment iPF 5100 because its glossy prints were awful with unacceptable gloss differential.  That is why I bought a Canon dye ink printer in its place.  With the introduction of Chroma Optimizer in the Pro-x000 ink set, I went back to pigment ink.  I stick with Canon because the gallery I go through is also a Canon value-added dealer.  By value-added I mean they use these products every day, answer the phone, and happily give instant and correct advice on how to get them to perform.

But I totally agree with you, Jeff.  If you plan to print a lot and plan to use a wide variety of paper, you should buy a printer that is supported by IP and rely on IP for profiles.  The price of IP will quickly be offset by the savings in ink and paper.

And my opinion of ImagePrint's website is still negative.  It is made for those already sold on IP; it is not made for those trying to find information on IP in order to decide on a purchase.  Which is quite the opposite of Canon's website.  Canon's site is meant to get people to buy and then offers little to no support for the product that has already been bought.

 

[Jeff S]

I agree...their site, and their marketing, suck.  But they are great about responding to questions and resolving issues, which is why I recommended that approach.  And I’m thrilled with the product, whether I print a lot or not, and regardless of the number of papers I try. Far better than LR Print module... full time softproofing, no messing with printer settings or color management, great edit and layout tools, etc.... profiles are just one benefit.

Jeff

Edited September 6, 2019 by Jeff S

[zeitz]

Jeff, you hit a sore spot with me.  The generic printer drivers in Windows and macOS are terrible.  The Adobe printer drivers in Lightroom / Photoshop are nearly as bad.  There can't be anyone at these companies who knows or cares about printing.  The Photoshop Plug-ins that come with the Canon iPF printers (Canon Lay-out and Canon Print Studio) on the other hand are actually excellent products.  I've never seen a reason to use anything else, but they do require the you to select settings and profile.

At some point I will download the IP trial and give it a try-out.  I would like to see how the profile for Pictorico Hi Gloss White Film compares to my custom profile.  The Pictorico profile that is on-line for download is poor.  This is a hard paper to get right.  It is actually not paper; it is plastic with ceramic dust to make it white.  It is the glossiest and sharpest "paper" I've ever printed on.  The prints almost look like a back-lite monitor.

[Jeff S]

The profiles are a bonus to me; otherwise I’d generate my own custom ones.  The core benefit is having a system developed by people who understand printing and who devote full time to optimizing the process, which for me means getting out of the Apple/Adobe/Epson chain whereby a change in one (often unannounced) will screw up everything and require wasted time and detective work to decipher (see Apple breakdown of color management years ago).  

I use LR for editing, then simply export to IP with a click.  I then choose a paper, paper size and profile (for any display lighting condition), make any further edits (always in softproof mode) and hit print. IP takes over the Epson driver to optimize everything else. It knows my machine, the paper, and all optimal settings specific to that paper and my machine. And, most importantly, the print results are excellent and repeatable.  (IP Black is the one to try....IP Red has no custom profiles and still relies on the Epson driver for color management.)

Jeff

Edited September 6, 2019 by Jeff S

[tom24]

Thanks all.

 

I'm the new happy owner of ImagePrint Black. :-) 

It is great print aplication.

 

And now learning and studying IP.

 

Regards