New M-A, lens seating problem

[lldd]

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When I move the focus tab back and forth to focus, the lens moves/slides back in forth in the mount.  Every single time.  I can hear it and feel it when I change direction of the focus action.  I agree some movement to enable mounting/unmounting without overdue torque is good engineering.  This is poor manufacturing and poor quality control.

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[otto.f]

Got the message

[Matlock]

8 hours ago, lldd said:

When I move the focus tab back and forth to focus, the lens moves/slides back in forth in the mount.  Every single time.  I can hear it and feel it when I change direction of the focus action.  I agree some movement to enable mounting/unmounting without overdue torque is good engineering.  This is poor manufacturing and poor quality control.

Quite obviously the locating tab is not fully engaging in the lens lug which sounds more like a lens issue than a camera mount issue (the 7artisans 50mm lens suffers from this when mounted in an M4 body). If the tab is fully engaged in the lens there is no way that any movement will be felt (other than a VERY slight play).

Edited August 7, 2019 by Matlock

[Mute-on]

Forget the M-A.  Find a nice M2 and save a few thousand. Leica never produced a better made film camera IMHO. 

Good luck

[Matlock]

54 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

Forget the M-A.  Find a nice M2 and save a few thousand. Leica never produced a better made film camera IMHO. 

Good luck

I have, and use, both. Great cameras but the M-A wins on several counts. Of course the M2 comes with built in rose coloured spectacles 😊.

[pedaes]

On 7/27/2019 at 10:35 PM, lldd said:

Returned the camera, and it was replaced with a new one.  Same issue, although not as bad.  I did a little experimentation, and discovered that the 35 lux involved also fits less tightly on the M10 than the APO 50 (although the lens doesn't move in the mount while focusing like it did on the M-A).  New M-A and 35 lux off to Germany to make them work well together.  This is a rather disappointing start, but if everything comes back top shape in a couple of weeks I'll at least know it was all calibrated to work as intended.

OK. Getting back to basics, can I ask if your first M. If it is, are you hearing a definite click at the end of travel when you mount a lens. I am wondering if in fact you have a tight/new mount that will need reasonable force to twist fully home. No offence intended, just exploring all possibles.

[lldd]

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I've owned an M9, a Monochrom and two M10's.  The lens "clicks" into place, locking it into the mount, so that's working fine.  The dealer explained that the lens at one end of spec, and the camera at the other end of spec, leads potentially to a combo out of spec.  That, and having the camera sit in the dealership for two weeks without shipping to Leica put an end to my willingness to proceed.  I'll use medium format for film and be reluctantly done with the M-A.

 

[pedaes]

58 minutes ago, lldd said:

I've owned an M9, a Monochrom and two M10's.  The lens "clicks" into place, locking it into the mount, so that's working fine.  The dealer explained that the lens at one end of spec, and the camera at the other end of spec, leads potentially to a combo out of spec.  That, and having the camera sit in the dealership for two weeks without shipping to Leica put an end to my willingness to proceed.  I'll use medium format for film and be reluctantly done with the M-A.

 

Understand.A shame, as medium format has a totally different user experience. I have always found Customer Care excellent at e-mailing a shipping label for fast courier dispatch/de;ivery. Seems to me you have been let down by the dealer rather than Leica.

Edited August 10, 2019 by pedaes

[Matlock]

40 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Understand.A shame, as medium format has a totally different user experience. I have always found Customer Care excellent at e-mailing a shipping label for fast courier dispatch/de;ivery. Seems to me you have been let down by the dealer rather than Leica.

I would agree with that and the dealer's explanation of the possible problem seems less than convincing. The M lens mount is such a simple and fool proof system. I have never heard of anyone having the trouble that is described and to have it with two bodies beggars belief.

[wattsy]

Unless I am misunderstanding the problem, I think the dealer's explanation is the most likely reason. It sounds like the OP's 35 Summilux might have an unusually tight focussing action and the mounts on the M-A bodies the OP has tried might be at the looser end of accepted tolerance. I've owned a few too many M cameras over the years and there has certainly been quite a bit of variation in how tight the mount feels when clicking a lens into place though I've never encountered the problem the OP describes.

[Guest]

As someone looking to purchase his first Leica, the M-A, seeing threads like this is quite disconcerting. A $5k film body in 2019 should not be slipping through QC with such, imo material, flaws. I understand per one of the above posters that this could be a quick fix for a veteran Leica repairman, but that shouldn't even be a consideration on a brand new $5,000 camera! Leica, you had one job... I mean, there can't be more than a couple hundred of these made per year; you'd think they paid extra close attention to what they were signing off on. I'm still hopeful, but slightly worried now. 

[Matlock]

2 minutes ago, White Buffalo said:

As someone looking to purchase his first Leica, the M-A, seeing threads like this is quite disconcerting. A $5k film body in 2019 should not be slipping through QC with such, imo material, flaws. I understand per one of the above posters that this could be a quick fix for a veteran Leica repairman, but that shouldn't even be a consideration on a brand new $5,000 camera! Leica, you had one job... I mean, there can't be more than a couple hundred of these made per year; you'd think they paid extra close attention to what they were signing off on. I'm still hopeful, but slightly worried now. 

Read the posts carefully and I think you will find it is the usual social media scare mongering. QC is fine and the M-A is a great camera.

[swordmanc]

2019 November, I've waited for a couple weeks for a black M-A due to its lack of stock, I couldn't find it anywhere.

A couple days ago, my local dealer told me they were receiving a new black M-A from Germany, I couldn't describe how excited I was.

Now it's in my hand, and I said to my friends it's too beautiful to use as a tool to take picture. It IS the picture.

Ironically, my words are somehow valid.

My M-A is experiencing the same wiggling issue with a 35mm summicron. It's noticeable especially when I am turning the focus wheel.

This is annoying, it's like the pain in the knees of a runner, it's taking my attention away from taking pictures.

I will send it back for a job to tighten the spring.

As my first M mount camera, this is a little disappointing. I also noticed that the M mount requires less rotation to lock the lens. Typically, for my old Ricoh K-Mount lens and Hasselblad xpan, I need to rotate about 60 degrees to lock the lens. The Leica only requires about 30 degrees of rotation, I guess that's why when the spring is not tight, the mount doesn't grabs the lens as tight as those cameras.

But come on Leica, this is a five-thousand-freaking-dollar camera, it should be TIGHT!

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by swordmanc

[a.noctilux]

Welcome here Swordmanc,

Sorry to hear that the new M-A is not "right" as you expected.

When you mounted your lens, had you checked that it "clicked" and locked in place.

Never measure the angle, but 30° rotation seems too small to me with my decades of use.

[pedaes]

43 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

When you mounted your lens, had you checked that it "clicked" and locked in place.

Agree. There is an irony that a tight fitting lens can need quite some force to get that confirmatory 'click'.

[Landiah]

I had this same issue on my new MP I got last month from Leica. Currently getting repaired. I was told there was apparently a batch that made it out with this issue - I am guessing the same thing happened with the M-A.

The MP also had an air bubble in the leather wrapping near the battery compartment. Thankfully Leica took it back to have that replaced at the same time. A bit disappointing to have this issue on a new camera of this stature, but nothing can be perfect. At the least, in my experience, they stand behind their product.

[swordmanc]

On 11/27/2019 at 3:27 AM, a.noctilux said:

Welcome here Swordmanc,

Sorry to hear that the new M-A is not "right" as you expected.

When you mounted your lens, had you checked that it "clicked" and locked in place.

Never measure the angle, but 30° rotation seems too small to me with my decades of use.

Yeah it's locked into the place but still has some play.

Since I am really curious about the problem, I just bought another pre-owned leica M-A recently, and tested it right way when I received it this week.

The same 35mm summicron lens very tight on the pre-owned M-A. The first thing I notice is the difference of the spring tension. The pre-owned M-A has more resistance when I mount and turn the lens into its position. Also I "feel" the mount itself has a smaller diameter so it fits better, but I am not 100% sure there is a noticeable difference in diameter, maybe it's just because the spring is tighter so it doesn't move as much as the new M-A.

However the pre-owned one has its own small issue with the back plate, making it not 100% perfect, when I press the back plate I can hear clicking sound, I didn't figure out where this sound comes from, but sounds like it's from where the back plate touches the bottom plate.

Next, I switched the bottom plates of the new and pre-ownd M-A, then the back plate clicking sound was gone, but now the bottom plate doesn't seal perfectly...

Another thing I noticed by comparing two M-As side by side is that my new M-A's shutter speed at 1 second is not accurate. It's about 0.9s as I measured while the pre-owned one is very close to 1s. Not sure if that's because of the new M-A needs some break in?? But an deviation of 10% from a new camera doesn't make me happy.

I googled around, found that it's not unusual for M-A to have QC issues. At this point, I'm kinda disappointed, it reminds me of some articles that criticizing those so called luxury brands are spending more money on marketing and branding, instead of technicians or leathersmith's salaries or quality control. As a result, people sometimes found the old product is more durable and has better value.

I still hope this is not true for Leica.

 

 

[swordmanc]

To illustrate my point, I took two close up picture of one of the mount springs, the first one is from my new M-A (the loose one),  the second one is from the pre-owned M-A (the tight one). To me It shows clearly that the pre-owned M-A has more spring tension to apply to the lens, thus the lens fit tighter.

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To be honest, the difference isn't big, but on a 35mm summicron, it's noticeable (and annoying). I can imagine this is something that could slip if not being tested manually with the lens before leaving the factory.

Edited December 13, 2019 by swordmanc

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[Matlock]

57 minutes ago, swordmanc said:

To illustrate my point, I took two close up picture of one of the mount springs, the first one is from my new M-A (the loose one),  the second one is from the pre-owned M-A (the tight one). To me It shows clearly that the pre-owned M-A has more spring tension to apply to the lens, thus the lens fit tighter.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

To be honest, the difference isn't big, but on a 35mm summicron, it's noticeable (and annoying). I can imagine this is something that could slip if not being tested manually with the lens before leaving the factory.

Interesting, however the item that you have indicated is not the mounting spring, the mounting lug ( with the red dot) is what locks the lens. 

[a.noctilux]

Matlock, in the red circle !

One of the four springs is in red circle  " ͜    " .

Those springs are to push the four claws of M lens when mounted.