Q2 Issues with lens correction in Lightroom

[TrickyMrT]

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Hello there,

i found out that the stored lens correction does not work in Lightroom!

I compared an image which was shot in JPG and DNG at the same time. If I switch between these images there is a difference and you can see at the corners that the jpg looks corrected.

Does someone else has seen the same effect?

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by TrickyMrT

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[marchyman]

What does Lightoom say?  Mine says this:

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However, I don't think I've ever compared a DNG in Lightroom to a jpeg.  Perhaps there is a difference.

[TrickyMrT]

The difference is so big that you should take a look on it.

Even if you make a picture of lines, wall etc you can see it.

 

 

[LexS]

I don't see difference (may be my eyes) between DNG and JPG in LTR:

I have made small changes in the Q setting for JPG, and

before reading in my pictures into LTR I run all DNG through Adobe DNG Converter, and

in LTR I have also set the built-in Lens Profile setting, see Marchyman.

 

[TrickyMrT]

There is something wrong!

If someone, like to check it too here, is an example:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ylddouo2uaerju9/AADmzZOZGBDooL4bjDh3qFXha?dl=0

Please putt both files in Lightroom and switch between them. You will see that the Lens correction will be different between the internal JPG and the "Built-in Lens Profile" for the DNG.

 

I would like to know how to fix this. Maybe we need to contact Leica about this issue.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by TrickyMrT

[marchyman]

Yes, they are different.   To my eye the DNG is more correct than the jpeg, i.e. both images have had lens correction adjustments applied but the DNG version with adjustments applied by Lightroom look more correct to my eye.  An uncorrected DNG looks like this:

 

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You can use the free "Darkroom" app to see what uncorrected DNG images look like.

[ramarren]

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11 hours ago, TrickyMrT said:

There is something wrong!

If someone, like to check it too here, is an example:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ylddouo2uaerju9/AADmzZOZGBDooL4bjDh3qFXha?dl=0

Please putt both files in Lightroom and switch between them. You will see that the Lens correction will be different between the internal JPG and the "Built-in Lens Profile" for the DNG.

I would like to know how to fix this. Maybe we need to contact Leica about this issue.

I imported both files into LR v6.14 and flipped back and forth between them. If anything, the DNG file corrected by LR has slightly better lens correction than the out-of-camaera JPEG does, but neither has an objectionable amount of distortion at all, really.

Here is a triptych made with your image files ... processed from the DNG in VueScan on the left, with no lens correction at all, processed from the DNG with LR 6.14 in the center at the defaults, and displaying the JPEG on the right. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t40ata4bilpzeh/3pix.jpg?dl=0

But this image is a little more difficult to see the differences on than one I took at that Leica Store San Francisco the other day. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1k3e0g6yqoicfv/3pix-2.jpg?dl=0

Seeing these two triptyches, I can't see any problem either with the out of camera JPEG or with the DNG processed in Lightroom. They're not absolutely identical, but no result from two different raw processors ever is!

Edited May 23, 2019 by ramarren

[PaulJS]

After playing around with some DNG files I took today, applying the “built in profile” seems to do absolutely nothing, almost like there isn’t a profile. When I apply it on my Nikon or iPhone, it lists the device and you can see the difference. With the Q2 it says nothing? 

[Leica Guy]

The “built-in” profile is automatically applied when you import. There is no choice. That’s how it operates with Lightroom. Don’t know about other programs. 

[TrickyMrT]

The question was not when the “built-in” profile is applied. It is about the difference about the out of camera jpg which looks much better corrected that the Lightroom “built-in” profile.

Maybe there is a technical defect?

 

 

 

[Leica Guy]

3 hours ago, TrickyMrT said:

The question was not when the “built-in” profile is applied. It is about the difference about the out of camera jpg which looks much better corrected that the Lightroom “built-in” profile.

Maybe there is a technical defect?

 

 

 

I’m not aware of any “technical defect”.  The DNG’s require post processing to realize the full benefit of the detail and dynamic range. 

[Overgaard]

The JPG is corrected in-camera (for color, exposure, contrast and all), the DNG is corrected for lens distortion etc in Lightroom or Capture One; and the rest is up to the user to modify to the desired look. There's a small difference in lines, and it's the same if you use Leica M with a Leica M lens: The JPG and DNG will have small differences. 

 

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[ramarren]

8 hours ago, TrickyMrT said:

The question was not when the “built-in” profile is applied. It is about the difference about the out of camera jpg which looks much better corrected that the Lightroom “built-in” profile.

Maybe there is a technical defect?

When I compared your DNG and your JPEG, with the DNG in LR, I found the DNG in LR at the defaults proved better corrected. I posted a link to the photo of the two side by side up-thread. 

[marchyman]

I also found the Lightroom version a touch better.  TrickyMrT prefers the jpeg.  That's OK.   However, if the difference is that important to him (I found the differences minor) then he's going to have to shoot jpeg.  Or, perhaps, spend some time in the Transform tab in the lightroom Develop panel.  Maybe he can match the jpeg output that way.

[TrickyMrT]

First of all, I like to say thank you for all replies!

What an honor that Mr. Overgaard is replying 😀 . ( You are the reason why I shoot now with Leica M10 ! )

 

Back to the topic...

If you compare the JPG and the DNG image in Lightroom ( The DNG with the automatical applied lens profile) you see a different distortion. This is massive.

I do not speak about the color rendering, I speak about the lens correction.

I have attached 2 files with the following link:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9i1qkt7xebj01h6/AACT8P-oygjSSuZWCommQLtBa?dl=0

 

Please take a look on the left side at the wall mounted lamp.

 

There you can see a difference if you just switch in full-screen mode between both images.

It seems that the stored lens profile does not work in Lightroom or it corrects in a wrong way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ramarren]

I have just looked at your second comparison set of images. The corrections are slightly different, again, but again the difference is so small as to be a matter of personal preference. 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. No two raw converters ever produce exactly the same thing. 

(Oh yes: minor correction is that the wall mounted lamp is on the right side... :))

Edited May 29, 2019 by ramarren

[TrickyMrT]

On 5/29/2019 at 5:01 PM, ramarren said:

I have just looked at your second comparison set of images. The corrections are slightly different, again, but again the difference is so small as to be a matter of personal preference. 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. No two raw converters ever produce exactly the same thing. 

(Oh yes: minor correction is that the wall mounted lamp is on the right side... :))

Thank you for your feedback.

The topic was not about your personal taste of acceptable distortion. If I buy a Leica camera I do not expect less than the best!  

There is massive distortion in the "DNG file with the automatical applied lens profile".

 

If I compare the distortion to my M10 files with a 35mm LUX or the 50mm APO it is nearby zero ( jpg vs. DNG file with applied lens profile).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marchyman]

47 minutes ago, TrickyMrT said:

There is massive distortion in the "DNG file with the automatical applied lens profile".

Unlike the M that you mention, needed lens correction adjustments are part of the design of the Q system. Corrections are necessary.  The camera makes the needed corrections to create jpegs.  Leica also puts a description of the needed corrections into the DNG.   Lightroom (and other raw editors) then use that data (or not) to process the raw data.  If you look at the raw image without any corrections (I posted the bottom part of such a view) you'll see black corners and much more curvature than in either the Lightroom version or the JPG version of the image.

Your complaint, as I understand it, is that you don't like the way Lightroom processes the DNG files.  Other raw editors might process the image in a way more pleasing to your eyes.  Have you tried something else?

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[ramarren]

1 hour ago, TrickyMrT said:

Thank you for your feedback.

The topic was not about your personal taste of acceptable distortion. If I buy a Leica camera I do not expect less than the best!  

There is massive distortion in the "DNG file with the automatical applied lens profile".

If I compare the distortion to my M10 files with a 35mm LUX or the 50mm APO it is nearby zero ( jpg vs. DNG file with applied lens profile). 

(bolded) Sorry, I disagree completely. I've posted comparisons of your images that I made and which prove that the "massive distortion" is barely noticeable. 

So ... Sell the camera: it's obviously not the right camera for you. Or, as Marchyman said, try a different image processing solution. Or just use the JPEG files and forget about raw files.