Leica 1c ADMIRALTY.NP

[Fiona]

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The font does seem different

[willeica]

Everything depends on the date from which the Elmar comes from. There many different fonts and other variations on Elmars from the early years. I am looking just now at illustration No 57 from Angela von Einem's 10 variations of the I Model A with Elmar book which shows the front of the Elmar from SN 2400 onwards and it looks just like the front of Fiona's lens. There are a considerable number of variations in the early Elmars and their markings, much more than most collectors realise. I will look at this again tomorrow using my collection and the literature which I have and will post again. I don't see any infra red marks here and the lens comes before the era of infra red marks. The mount with the distance scale clearly comes from another lens.

William

[luigi bertolotti]

Yes… those "small" fonts (with "mm" aligned on the top of "50") are typical of very old fixed Mount Elmars… and btw, my doubt about the infrared marking was unmotivated… it's present even in the Elmax….

All in all, I think it's Leitz authentic… maybe a former fixed mount converted to LTM ?  (7 o'clock ? can be ?)

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by luigi bertolotti

[Fiona]

When you say infrared....do you mean infinity?

[willeica]

Here is the lens from SN 1661 from 1926, the oldest I model A with Elmar in my collection. You will see that the markings are very similar to those on your one. You need not look for exact similarity with such early items as there was quite a degree of variation in those years. Jim Lager says that it was often down to who was doing the engraving or stamping that week. Van Hasbroeck lists about 25 variants and there are more to be found if you look at the 10 variants of the I Model A book produced by Angela von Einem. Jerzy and I have also spotted other variants. Indeed, as Jerzy says, there is probably a lifetime of work in tracing all of the Elmar variants.

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Your lens is 'out of period' with the camera, of course, coming from a much earlier camera, probably a I Model A. As mentioned before, the chrome mount is from another lens and the cone shaped infinity knob with knurling was probably added when the lens was converted from an 11O'Clock to a 7 O'Clock infinity position.

William

[luigi bertolotti]

8 hours ago, Fiona said:

When you say infrared....do you mean infinity?

No, I mean the "R" marking on the distance scale.

[derleicaman]

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As Will noted, the lens is out of period with the camera. Who knows at what point in time the "marriage" of this particular body and lens occurred. It has been over 70 years since this camera was put into government service and the engravings made and the camera issued to the unit indicated by the markings.

Out of curiosity Fiona, are you or your father from the States, England or somewhere else? This would help explain or give some clues as to the history here.

It is my understanding that the MoD asked private individuals to turn in their cameras to the government for the war effort. They were especially looking for Leicas. I doubt the camera was originally purchased by the MoD. After the war, when the camera was decommissioned all we can count on was the the SCNOO base was matched to the camera and that is about it. From the looks of the bodged "infiinty stop" on this lens, the mismatch in finishes of the mount and the lens head, the lens has led a very hard life.

[Fiona]

1 hour ago, derleicaman said:

Out of curiosity Fiona, are you or your father from the States, England or somewhere else? This would help explain or give some clues as to the history here.

Dad was Scottish but during ww2 (he was in the Army), his family moved to England and he moved there after the war.   He bought most of his cameras in and around London.

[jpattison]

On 2/27/2019 at 4:18 PM, willeica said:

 It might be useful to have a sticky thread here which sorts out the number and letter denominations of LTM Leicas, as many Leica fans, even some of long standing, get mixed up with these. I once met a man who had been using Leicas since 1954 and who did not know the difference between a Leica III Model F (from 1933 onwards) and a Leica IIIf (from 1950 onwards). It may seem irrelevant to some, but it is important when it comes to identifying different Leica camera models.

I suspect that this camera was used by the publications branch of the British Admiralty.

William

The term "Model F"  was not a Leica term, the camera was a III.

I believe it was those pesky Americans who insisted on this extra denomination to distinguish different features. Leitz ignored this naming of the types and continued with the lower case letters to distinguish the newer models.

John

[willeica]

55 minutes ago, jpattison said:

The term "Model F"  was not a Leica term, the camera was a III.

I believe it was those pesky Americans who insisted on this extra denomination to distinguish different features. Leitz ignored this naming of the types and continued with the lower case letters to distinguish the newer models.

 

These terms , whatever their origins, are in use for many years and are accepted designations which appear in Leica literature. The lower case designation started with the IIIa in 1935 and continued up until the IIIg in the 1950s. There was no continuation or ignoring by Leitz here at all. They are two different and non overlapping sequences A, B, C D, E and F (first introduced in 1925 and the last introduced in 1933) and then a,b,c,d,f and g (first introduced in 1935 and the last introduced in 1957). I hope that this clarifies the matter for you.

William

Edited March 2, 2019 by willeica

[Fiona]

Ok, so i seem to have a Leica Standard e 1938 fitted with a bit of a mish mash of older bits of lens and mount which has  a repaired base plate and may or may not have been used by the Admiralty.   I'm thinking of putting it in an auction...maybe Astons in Dudley who have 3 auctions a year specialising in photography and lenses....would it be worth auctioning it?

[jpattison]

17 hours ago, willeica said:

They are two different and non overlapping sequences A, B, C D, E and F (first introduced in 1925 and the last introduced in 1933) and then a,b,c,d,f and g

Yes, that's what I said. The capital sequences were not from Wetzlar, but Leitz NY. I was being flippant, sorry.

 

John

[willeica]

17 hours ago, Fiona said:

Ok, so i seem to have a Leica Standard e 1938 fitted with a bit of a mish mash of older bits of lens and mount which has  a repaired base plate and may or may not have been used by the Admiralty.   I'm thinking of putting it in an auction...maybe Astons in Dudley who have 3 auctions a year specialising in photography and lenses....would it be worth auctioning it?

I suggest that you talk to them about terms and share the information you have got here.

William