rpo Posted July 19, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) A nice day to all Leica Users! Leicapassion Magazine n. 2-2007 is on the web free downloadable at the web address http://www.leicapassion.com by a simple registration (Username & email address). On the last Leicapassion Magazine you can view the M8 noise test comparated with other Leica M models (M3-M2-M4-M6-M7) and others interesting arguments. Enjoy My best regards Roberto Piero Ottavi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Hi rpo, Take a look here M8 noise test. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest tummydoc Posted July 19, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 19, 2007 If you mean digital noise, aren't you actually comparing the M8 to your scanner? If you mean auditory noise, the M8 has a vertical metal shutter with a motorised arming mechanism, vs the others with cloth shutters and manual wind-on. I can't see where a test is needed to confirm what's intuitively obvious not to mention frequently discussed, that they make entirely different sounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 19, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 19, 2007 Come on Vinay, stop playing Mr Grumpy. You know what he means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted July 19, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 19, 2007 Actually no, I don't, since I don't read Italian, but there are only two possibilities and I mentioned them both. I don't see the purpose of redundant comparisons of either type of noise from the M8 to anything else because the M8 is what it is and isn't likely to change significantly prior to the next model. PS, if I was trying to be grumpy I would've said something about the ethics of using this forum to troll for hits on another one, nevermind one that requires registration and fluency in Italian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 19, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 19, 2007 True, but there may be people out there with an M2-7 who don't have an M8 but are _curious_ about how it sounds compared to their camera. No, the M8 isn't going to change - actually that's not true if Leica decide to separate the firing of the shutter and it's re-cocking, I haven't heard anything from them regarding this, perhaps you have. Personally I'm not interested in the comparison as I own/have owned M2/3/6 cameras in addition to the M8, but I am able to recognise that just because I have no personal interest in something that doesn't mean that it will be of no interest to anyone else. Finally I'd hardly describe a link to a non-commercial site as a troll. I don't speak Italian either, but I feel pretty confident that there are Italian speakers here who will compensate for our ignorance. I know this may come as a shock, but I saw a post here the other day in Dutch!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiolov Posted July 19, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 19, 2007 The results of the test, performed in anechoic chamber with a phonometer, are shown with the universal language of science, and can be understood by anyone who is willing to understand. To summarize what is expressed in the extremely clear chart of results at the end of the article, the m8 is only 1,2 db(a) - where (a) means that the measure is corrected in relation to the frequency sensitivity of human ears- louder of the mean value of the older models. Sergio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philinflash Posted July 19, 2007 Share #7 Posted July 19, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you mean digital noise, aren't you actually comparing the M8 to your scanner? If you mean auditory noise, the M8 has a vertical metal shutter with a motorised arming mechanism, vs the others with cloth shutters and manual wind-on. I can't see where a test is needed to confirm what's intuitively obvious not to mention frequently discussed, that they make entirely different sounds. I don't think he meant the kind of noise your posting represents, doctor. It looks like a useful publication to those who can read Italian or can get it translated to a more convenient language. Give them a chance to be heard. One of the positive things about the M8-owning community is its multi-culturalism with which should come a little tolerance for diversity. Sorry if you don't buy into that, doctor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted July 19, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 19, 2007 This is a very informative forum. In fact it is the most informative for anyone who owns or contemplates an M8. We have people here making bayonet adaptors, filter holders and writing complex software programmes in order to facilitate everyone being able to use lenses otherwise locked out by the infrared problem and Leica's average-value firmware mated to a truncated list of codable lenses. That kind of service is, as they say "huge". To my mind using scientific test apparatus to confirm that the M8 is "louder" than an M7 is a grotesque waste of resources, but perhaps that is because my hearing ability is sufficient to make such a determination empirically, and I should have been more compassionate toward those who aren't as fortunate, therefore I apologise...or perhaps I should say mi dispiace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpo Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted July 20, 2007 I'm really astounded for some answers… The sense of my words published in the last "Leicapassion Magazine on line" is not that to denigrate the M8 but, indeed, to demonstrate that many critics about the M8 noise are absolutely stupid. Thanks however for the consideration and the attention that you have demonstrated to me and to Leicapassion magazine (beyond 16000 readers on the world every new number even if published only in Italian language). Regards Roberto Piero Ottavi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmcsu Posted July 20, 2007 Share #10 Posted July 20, 2007 Roberto, I registered & enjoyed many of the previous issues also.Nice work! Muchas gracias Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asfeir Posted July 20, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 20, 2007 The results of the test, performed in anechoic chamber with a phonometer, are shown with the universal language of science, and can be understood by anyone who is willing to understand.To summarize what is expressed in the extremely clear chart of results at the end of the article, the m8 is only 1,2 db(a) - where (a) means that the measure is corrected in relation to the frequency sensitivity of human ears- louder of the mean value of the older models. Sergio Human response to noise is quite a complex thing. If the difference is really 1.2 dbA then it should not be perceptible; acousticians know that a 3 dB is just perceptible, 5 dB is clearly noticeable and 10 dB is perceived as twice as loud. I do not own my pre-M8 anymore, however, and from what I hear, there is a clear difference in noise. If this is the case, then it would be due to difference in frequency content of the noise, rather than its loudness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 20, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 20, 2007 Hey, guys! Get off it! Roberto gave us a wonderful Leica calendar and he always tells us when he publishes a new edition of Leicapassion. I can't read it, but my gosh, there's a lot of stuff I can't read. During the DMR days we had postings in Portuguese of DMR images, and I didn't complain that I couldn't read the language. That's my problem, not that of the poster. I'm glad someone has enough interest in the Leica to publish about it without a commercial tie-in, and I'm glad for Roberto's enthusiasm. I'm also rapidly losing my hearing, so seeing a sound-levels comparison doesn't bother me. Maybe the problem is that the forum has a Deutsches Forum and an International Forum. Perhaps Andreas should change the latter to an English-only Forum. Then we could start establishing rules about how many misspellings or grammar errors per post we can allow, and whether we spell by Microsoft, British, Amurcan, Aussie or Canadian rules. Sheesh. Roberto, thanks for the post. Put me on your "ignore" list because I'm always wordier than I intended. Respectfully, HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpo Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted July 20, 2007 Asfeir write: "If the difference is really 1.2 dbA then it should not be perceptible; acousticians know that a 3 dB is just perceptible, 5 dB is clearly noticeable and 10 dB is perceived as twice as loud." Not, my friend, unfortunately your preparation about the technical physics applied to the noise is rather light. The behavior of the noise is not linear but logarithmic and an increment of 3 dB is not “just perceptible”, but exactly 100% more and an increment of 9 dB correspond to multiply 8 times the acoustic pressure... (Just for information I work in the field of the judicial acoustic research.) However not problem, the important is to interpret correctly my good will because I'm a technician but also a true Leica amateur and I think to offer my technical experience also to who demonstrates not to appreciate my job. :-)) My best regards and my general "thanks" for any replay. Roberto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertobari Posted July 20, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 20, 2007 Hey, guys! Get off it! Roberto gave us a wonderful Leica calendar and he always tells us when he publishes a new edition of Leicapassion. I can't read it, but my gosh, there's a lot of stuff I can't read. During the DMR days we had postings in Portuguese of DMR images, and I didn't complain that I couldn't read the language. That's my problem, not that of the poster. I'm glad someone has enough interest in the Leica to publish about it without a commercial tie-in, and I'm glad for Roberto's enthusiasm. I'm also rapidly losing my hearing, so seeing a sound-levels comparison doesn't bother me. Maybe the problem is that the forum has a Deutsches Forum and an International Forum. Perhaps Andreas should change the latter to an English-only Forum. Then we could start establishing rules about how many misspellings or grammar errors per post we can allow, and whether we spell by Microsoft, British, Amurcan, Aussie or Canadian rules. Sheesh. Roberto, thanks for the post. Put me on your "ignore" list because I'm always wordier than I intended. --HC Not all the people is the same, as you can see reading this post. I konow very well Roberto Piero Ottavi, he loves Leica M8 and his Leicapassion's words and graphisc published are not negative ... too if you can understand only graphics and arabic numbers! Thank Roberto for your work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 20, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 20, 2007 PS, if I was trying to be grumpy I would've said something about the ethics of using this forum to troll for hits on another one, nevermind one that requires registration and fluency in Italian. This is the International forum, not the English-speaking forum. If a bunch of penguins start posting here in their native language, that is just as ethical as posting in English Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 20, 2007 AW: M8 noise test Asfeir write: "If the difference is really 1.2 dbA then it should not be perceptible; acousticians know that a 3 dB is just perceptible, 5 dB is clearly noticeable and 10 dB is perceived as twice as loud." Not, my friend, unfortunately your preparation about the technical physics applied to the noise is rather light. The behavior of the noise is not linear but logarithmic and an increment of 3 dB is not “just perceptible”, but exactly 100% more and an increment of 9 dB correspond to multiply 8 times the acoustic pressure... (Just for information I work in the field of the judicial acoustic research.) However not problem, the important is to interpret correctly my good will because I'm a technician but also a true Leica amateur and I think to offer my technical experience also to who demonstrates not to appreciate my job. :-)) My best regards and my general "thanks" for any replay. Roberto Yes Roberto - even as a dilettante in this field I knew that (a sinful youth full of HiFi interest) but I am sure you'll agree that, when all is said and done the perception of a sound is quite subjective. Even if the sound of an M8 is 1.2 Db louder than an M7, one can expect a number of people to experience it as more than twice as loud- the human mind is is marvellous computer. Having said that, my personal perception is that it is indeed somewhat louder, but certainly less than an M7 with motorwinder. I would rather call it more decisive, but not unpleasantly so. I doubt that the separating of the recocking would make much difference. I appears to be less intrusive than the original click. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 20, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 20, 2007 Alberto, I can't quite tell whether you realize that you and I agree. Thanks for reminding me that there is room for many opinions on any topic; but please recognize that I'm supporting Roberto's respect and enthusiasm for Leica. I don't believe I implied that I thought his report was negative. I don't think that stating fact can be either positive or negative. I do respect all those who voice opinions here, and I apologize if I came across harsh. And I'm beginning to wonder if I confuse everyone every time I post an opinion. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 20, 2007 nevermind one that requires [.....]fluency in Italian. Babelfish?? It may turn out funny (I wouldn't know because Italian presents only minor problems to me;) ) but it will be understandable.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 20, 2007 Share #19 Posted July 20, 2007 Roberto-- What is engraved on the top plate of your M8? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertobari Posted July 20, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 20, 2007 Roberto--What is engraved on the top plate of your M8? --HC His name and the number of the camera 3333333 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.