SL EVF dimness in Bright Sunlight

[ron777]

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This post was erroneously placed on the Ver 4 firmware wishlist, so I have duplicated same here.

I have come across a bevy of posts on the Internet relating to the SL's EVF and the relative "brightness" of same.  I am an eyeglass wearer and have myself encountered an issue with the SL's EVF brightness/visibility on bright, sunny days.  Since there is no real user control over the EVF's levels of "brightness," it is often difficult to visualize the intended subject in the presence of intense sunlight, either coming from behind the camera or off to its side.  I suspect that the darkened viewfinder is the result of light leakage emanating from the eyepiece, an issue that non eyeglass wearers might not encounter, or may experience to a lesser degree.  That said, and since many of us older photographers do wear glasses, it would be nice to see either a firmware fix for this problem, thereby allowing for user cancellation of the EVF's automatic brightness feature under the aforementioned circumstances or, in the alternative, a better eyeglass sealing rubber eye cup.  Any other curative suggestions would be appreciated.

 

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Edited November 20, 2018 by ron777

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[Jeff S]

Various older threads on the topic have included suggestions regarding hats, eyecups, camera settings (influenced by the then current FW), etc.

Here’s one older one via quick search...

Jeff

[thighslapper]

The EVF is a fairly faithful representation of optimum overall exposure of the scene using auto exposure ..... or exactly what your exposure settings will give you if using manual exposure.

Modifying the EVF brightness rather defeats the object......

Wearing a floppy hat in bright conditions helps enormously ..... and I've always used cameras with my specs off so I have never had issues. 

If you eye is close enough to the eyepiece to block most ambient light entering your pupil..... and close the other eye ..... there should be no problem even in the brightest sunshine. I would have thought taking your specs off is a simpler solution than ferreting around in menus and adjusting the EVF brightness. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by thighslapper

[Jeff S]

Taking my specs off would not be an option; I prefer clear vision.

Jeff

 

 

[ron777]

Hello Thighslapper,

Actually, removing one's eyeglasses while in the field is not a viable solution, as it guarantees the loss or damage of same.  Furthermore, I can attest to the fact that many of my own "specs" have been either crushed or scratched beyond repair after hastily placing them in a pocket in an attempt tp "capture the moment" in camera.  I've read many of the older posts regarding the EVF brightness complaints, ergo, my own post.  I understand that the EVF does, or should provide a  representation of the actual exposure, but when one cannot see what is being exposed, it becomes a bit of a hit and miss scenario.  In addition, I am not accustomed to determining exposure based upon what I see in the EVF, as I would rather depend upon the histogram, or other exposure aids, such as an incident light meter. That said, I own and use various other camera systems—Sony a7rIII, Blad, Fuji GFX, etc.— and have not run into this issue.  I suspect that it may be related to the eyecup design and its inability to shield itself from ambient light when confronted with a curved eyeglass lens. I am not a hat person, but that may represent the only reasonable solution.

If I am correct, and the issue is due to EVF light penetration, a simple solution might be an add-on eyecup with a slight contour to better encompass the eyeglass lens.  Currently available, aftermarket eyecups are designed for binoculars, and may not work for an eyeglass wearer, although I am tempted to try one.

Thank you for your input and suggestions.

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by ron777

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, ron777 said:

 I suspect that it may be related to the eyecup design and its inability to shield itself from ambient light when confronted with a curved eyeglass lens. I am not a hat person, but that may represent the only reasonable solution.

If I am correct, and the issue is due to EVF light penetration, a simple solution might be an add-on eyecup with a slight contour to better encompass the eyeglass lens.  Currently available, aftermarket eyecups are designed for binoculars, and may not work for an eyeglass wearer, although I am tempted to try one.

I think you are correct and that is the fundamental issue. 

Trying to fit a different eyecup on the SL is a bit of a problem ....... you would think you could just full the existing one off and slip on a different on of similar diameter.....

Wrong 🙄

 Having broken the supporting rim on mine resulting in dismantling and repair it is apparent that the rubber surround cannot be removed easily as it is fixed with multiple projections in the plastic support that insert into two rows of holes in the rubber ...... and once off is impossible to put back on (well, I did manage but it involved radical surgery to the rubber cup). In assembly the rubber cup is presumably fitted to the supporting plastic rim, and this in turn is screwed to the eyepiece assembly from the eyepiece side, which is then fitted to the camera body somehow ...... either a tight push fit requiring some bespoke tool to remove, or even earlier in the body assembly process. 

The existing rubber cup is a bit to squidgy to fit anything easily over it. 

Maybe a shade of some sort that attaches to something that slots into the hotshoe would be a possibility.......

I will have a rummage in my drawer of discarded bits and pieces and see if I can design something ...... 🤨

[ron777]

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Hello Thighslapper,

During my search for an EVF/light leak solution, I came across a post from an SL owner/user who'd installed an aftermarket eyecup made for binoculars.  He provided a photo depicting the eyecup stretched over the SL's existing eyecup, indicating that the camera's existing eyecup did not require removal.  The shape of this eyecup does not appear to be a perfect solution for eyeglass wearers, however, it might be possible to trim it to the extent that it might be useful, assuming that the material is adequately pliable. Here is the link for the product:

http://www.fieldopticsresearch.com/shop/EyeShield-Winged-Eye-Cups/p/EyeShield-Standard-Size-sku-B001.htm

I plan on placing an order ... its reasonable cost makes it a worthy candidate for experimentation.

Edited November 21, 2018 by ron777

[ron777]

While an eyecup modification, or addition, may serve to improve upon the issue of light entering the EVF from behind, there remains another pressing issue.  Since the EVF's automatic function is not user definable, bright backgrounds, or backlit subjects cause it to dim to the extent that the subject is not discernible for purposes of precise focusing, although spot metering occasionally helps for near objects/subjects.  The FN button can temporarily resolve this issue, but having to engage it for each and every shot is nonsensical.  I reside in South Florida, where bright, sunny days are the rule, rather than the exception. I sincerely hope that Leica's decision makers are following these posts, because had I been aware of this last issue prior to purchase, I might have looked elsewhere, or would have resigned myself to the exclusive use of my existing camera systems.

Edited November 22, 2018 by ron777

[gvaliquette]

When I went on a trek to Mt Everest (a long time age, when I was younger), I purchased extra-dark sun glasses which had "side-flaps" on the arms of the glasses, to shield from light entering from the side.  You may want to try rigging something like that on your glasses.

 

Guy

[ron777]

17 minutes ago, gvaliquette said:

When I went on a trek to Mt Everest (a long time age, when I was younger), I purchased extra-dark sun glasses which had "side-flaps" on the arms of the glasses, to shield from light entering from the side.  You may want to try rigging something like that on your glasses.

 

Guy

Hi Guy,

The problem is not related to my eyeglass configuration, or light leak into my glasses but, rather, light leak through the EVF's eye cup.  And this is due to the fact that eye glass lenses are not flat and do not seal against the rubber eye cup material.  An eye cup with greater reveal and a flexible rubber structure would be an improvement, as would an after market ad-on that could be slid over the existing eye cup.

But an even more pressing issue relates to the EVF's response to high contrast , backlit, or mixed lighting subject situations, where it tends to turn very dark, thereby making precise focusing all but impossible.   A remedy could reside in making the front FN button default function a permanent on/off feature, rather than having it disengage each time the shutter is activated.

Edited November 22, 2018 by ron777

[thighslapper]

2 hours ago, ron777 said:

But an even more pressing issue relates to the EVF's response to high contrast , backlit, or mixed lighting subject situations, where it tends to turn very dark, thereby making precise focusing all but impossible.   A remedy could reside in making the front FN button default function a permanent on/off feature, rather than having it disengage each time the shutter is activated.

I think you will find this is dependent on the metering mode used and where the subject you want to focus on lies within the overall view and nothing to do with the EVF.

Spot or centre weighted metering partly avoid this but there will still be plenty of situations  where you will have to workaround this issue .... although with AF lenses focus should be ok whatever the situation. 

I sympathise that you tragically live in an area blessed with year round wonderful weather that causes issues taking photos, luckily here on the wet miserable western edges of Europe we have no EVF issues ..... 😄

[ron777]

Thank you for your sympathies in re South Florida residence.  Living in the subtropics is clearly a sacrifice, but someone has to do it (LOL). Actually, aside from the almost perpetual, bright sunshine—and occasional rain and hurricanes—life down here is good.  But the intense heat and bright sunlight does present an interesting, and sometimes challenging, backdrop for photographers.  Bright sun makes colors pop and models melt, but the job gets done.

Your suggestion regarding metering was well received, and while I tend to stick with spot metering with my other camera systems, I will switch from spot to the Leica's matrix metering and see if that makes a difference.  That said, I sent off an email to Leica with a few suggestions regarding the EVF ... we'll see where that goes.

[ron777]

On 11/22/2018 at 3:13 PM, thighslapper said:

I think you will find this is dependent on the metering mode used and where the subject you want to focus on lies within the overall view and nothing to do with the EVF.

Spot or centre weighted metering partly avoid this but there will still be plenty of situations  where you will have to workaround this issue .... although with AF lenses focus should be ok whatever the situation. 

I sympathise that you tragically live in an area blessed with year round wonderful weather that causes issues taking photos, luckily here on the wet miserable western edges of Europe we have no EVF issues ..... 😄

The issue was first encountered while metering in spot mode.  I recreated  the most troublesome scenario and switched to multi field which did mitigate the problem to some extent.  It appears that the metering mode, as well as light entering through the viewfinder, while two isolated issues, can be addressed by the judicious choice of metering mode and by devising a method that reproducibly blocks the entrance of extraneous light through the EVF, this last issue somewhat perplexing in nature for a non hat person.  I do have an aftermarket eyecup on the way that will likely require some modification, assuming that it fits over the existing eyecup.  I'll check back after it has arrived and I've had some time to fiddle with it.

The  aforementioned notwithstanding, a side-by-side comparison of the outdoor EVF brightness between my SL and Sony a7rIII reveals that the Sony is several stops brighter in all brightly lit outdoor scenarios.

Edited November 26, 2018 by ron777

[ron777]

The eyecup shields arrived today.  It slips easily and snugly over the SL's existing eyecup and does a great job of blocking EVF light penetration.  While it appears to work best for non eyeglass wearers, the shield is bendable and does compress around the eyeglass lens to the extent that it blocks penetrating light.  Here is an image showing the eye shield attached to my SL. It took less than a minute to install.  A link to the selling site is on one of my earlier posts above. BTW, no modification was required, the image below shows the eye cup just as it arrived from the manufacturer.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited November 26, 2018 by ron777

[Donzo98]

4 hours ago, ron777 said:

The eyecup shields arrived today.  It slips easily and snugly over the SL's existing eyecup and does a great job of blocking EVF light penetration.  While it appears to work best for non eyeglass wearers, the shield is bendable and does compress around the eyeglass lens to the extent that it blocks penetrating light.  Here is an image showing the eye shield attached to my SL. It took less than a minute to install.  A link to the selling site is on one of my earlier posts above. BTW, no modification was required, the image below shows the eye cup just as it arrived from the manufacturer.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You need to have bigger side of the facing left...

Most of the stray light comes from that side...at least on mine it did.

[Jeff S]

42 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

You need to have bigger side of the facing left...

Most of the stray light comes from that side...at least on mine it did.

That might be painful for a right eyed viewer.

Jeff

[ron777]

The orientation of the eye cup is entirely dependent upon which eye you use to view with, in my case it is the right eye.  In the case of right eye viewing I have noticed that the greatest degree of light penetration comes from the right side.  And if you are right handed, the right hand supports the camera body— the left supports the bottom of the lens—and cannot be used to block light, but in a pinch the left can.  But regardless of which way the shield faces, it works!

Edited November 27, 2018 by ron777

[3meter]

Thanks for the eyecup advise.  I live in northern Florida  and have the same dark EVF issue with the SL I just purchased.  On some Fuji cameras to a lesser extent I have had the same issue as well which is why I like their hybrid viewfinder.  I am surprised that the "expert" reviewers (whose reviews I am sure you pour over before deciding to purchase a camera as I do) never mention this important issue.

I just ordered my eyecup shields today.  Thanks again!

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[Chuck Albertson]

 

i wear eyeglasses with a heavy prescription, and haven't noticed any problems seeing the EVF in bright sunlight. If it's bright sunlight, though, I typically wear a boonie hat (at least) for sun protection, and it shades the EVF as a bonus.

[hoppyman]

Backtracking before the eyecup discussion, did you look at the menu settings for exposure preview in each exposure mode? That change was implemented by firmware after the original version.