Leica APO-TELYT-R 280mm f/4.0 or Leica APO 280mm f/2.8

[Brian C in Az]

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I am considering the purchase of a 280 to use with a 1.4 and 2x. Need a little help deciding. Prices are almost exactly the same, conditions are mint.

I'm looking for opinions of preference since a few on here have used both lenses or own one or the other. 

Thanks

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[mmradman]

I only use f4 with both TC but also used 300 f2.8 in different brand also with 1.4 and 1.7 TC.  In terms of light gathering abilities f2.8 is always better but f4 is more compact. TC always play better on faster lens, in good light f4 can deliver, you can even stack 1.4 with 2 TC for monster magnification providing you have literally rock solid tripod, my Gitzo 3 Series struggles a bit, using gimbal helps a lot (Arca Ballhead with Wimberley quasi gimbal arm).

In terms of comparing two Leica 280 lenses optically the f4 is the reference lens by which all other are measured.  If you get well focused and exposed image results speak for themself.

If i am to start again with what I know today I would probably buy latest Nikon 300 f4 Fresnel for its compact size and low weight.  Usability beats even the best optics in the universe. 

[thighslapper]

I have the 280/2.8

It is enormous and heavy, images at 2.8 have a fair bit of CA and unless light is good lack a bit of contrast. By f4 image quality is very good and allegedly fairly close to the 280/4.

I have used it with the SL and stacked 1.4x + 2x adapters and the results are excellent..... but unless I was a diehard wildlife nut who wants to spend all day static in a hide I'd be reluctant to consider it an easily portable solution.....

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[thighslapper]

This is with 1.4x+2x stacked apo adapters ..... (cropped a fair bit)

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[wizard]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb thighslapper:

This is with 1.4x+2x stacked apo adapters ..... (cropped a fair bit)

The quality of your two sample shots is simply amazing. Considering that the second one was taken with the optical system itself AND two adapters stacked on top, this is stunning.

Andy

[tritentrue]

I first owned a beat-up 280 2.8, which gave me great images.  I sold it so I could buy the 280 f4, which was in almost mint condition. Its ability to render detail seemed to be limitless, even on a 20mp m43 sensor.  But I had color issues with it to varying degrees on different cameras, which I later learned from a thread here to most likely be due to reflection off the sensor.

I used the lens with eighteen different camera models in an effort to find a good match. Color was somewhat reliable only on the M240 and SL, where the lens was a bit short for my purposes.

So I sold the 280 f4 and got another copy of the 280 2.8. In spite of the heavier weight and greater bulk, I find it easier to shoot hand-held because I can focus it with my little finger.  My current copy seems to have slightly more difference in contrast between f/2.8 and f/4 than the first copy, and I mostly shoot it at f/4 for depth anyway. But f/2.8 is there (and still good) if I need it.

Looking back at the reading I did about these two lenses some years ago before I ever owned either one, it seems that much of the lore of the 280mm f/4 came from a very few sources. And with the most prolific of those "sources," the spectacular images appear to me to be due more to the extraordinary skills of the photographer rather than to the lens itself.

[Brian C in Az]

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35 minutes ago, tritentrue said:

the spectacular images appear to me to be due more to the extraordinary skills of the photographer rather than to the lens itself.

You mean like the guy in reply #3 and 4?

Beautiful photos once again thighslapper.

 

I shot my SL today with my 70/180 and a 2x. I think the 70/180 f2.8 is heavier than the 280 f2.8; weight wasn't an issue once the dragon flies and bees started appearing. I've been shooting them because they offer little time to focus and I wanted to see the detail in their wings and the vegetation. I was focusing around 11 feet on average at f4 ISO 2600 and stopping bee wing motion in flight; I can examine their veins even.

So today, I learned that MF is not much of a handicap at all, whether it was ducks or dragon flies or hummingbirds.

At 240mm to 360mm effective lengths, I do not need to enlarge the images on screen more than 50% to make them larger than life and again the details are fantastic.

The longer focal length compared to the 24-90 is a must for me and what I want to do.

I think the colors with the R lens are better than the colors shot with the 24-90 last week.

There are several mint and near mint 280 APO f2.8 on the market now as well as 3 in rough condition for under $2000. Add the cost of a CLA and they would still be a good deal. I'm more likely to lean towards the mint/near mint ones. 

[Brian C in Az]

7 hours ago, thighslapper said:

I have the 280/2.8

It is enormous and heavy, images at 2.8 have a fair bit of CA and unless light is good lack a bit of contrast. By f4 image quality is very good and allegedly fairly close to the 280/4.

I have used it with the SL and stacked 1.4x + 2x adapters and the results are excellent..... but unless I was a diehard wildlife nut who wants to spend all day static in a hide I'd be reluctant to consider it an easily portable solution.....

 

I have read that there are specific teleconverters for the 280 f2.8. I have also read that some people have used the regular adapters and didn't see any problems.

What is your findings on this issue.

There is a 1.4x available and it is labeled "For use with 280 APO f2.8 ONLY"

Would it matter which adapter is first, closest to the lens and which is second?

Do I need to find another 2x since mine is not designated for the 280 f2.8?

Thanks

[tritentrue]

37 minutes ago, Brian C in Az said:

You mean like the guy in reply #3 and 4?

No, but the individual to whom I referred is a member here, well known to most, who still posts occasionally.

 

One thing to watch out for with well-used copies of the 280mm f2.8 is that the retaining ring behind the front element can sometimes loosen with mishandling, leading to a puzzling combination of perfectly-focused and slightly out-of-focus shots.

Be sure to test both the aperture lever and ring as well.  With my current copy, only the lever can be used to adjust the blades.  It appears that the either the lever or some inner mechanism was bent from having the mount changed by a previous owner, a marketplace peril with some R lenses.

Edited November 17, 2018 by tritentrue

[thighslapper]

8 hours ago, Brian C in Az said:

I have read that there are specific teleconverters for the 280 f2.8. I have also read that some people have used the regular adapters and didn't see any problems.

What is your findings on this issue.

There is a 1.4x available and it is labeled "For use with 280 APO f2.8 ONLY"

Would it matter which adapter is first, closest to the lens and which is second?

Do I need to find another 2x since mine is not designated for the 280 f2.8?

Thanks

This gives you all the info you need ......

https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-accessory/leica-apo-extender

basically the 1.4x was specifically for the 280/2.8 and was labelled as such, but subsequent production left the labelling off as it was usable on other lenses as well. The 1.4x has a protuberant front element that is only compatible with some lenses. the 2x is compatible with everything. The 1.4x fixes first to the lens then the 2x if you are stacking them. 

this site gives you a handy compatibility list. 

used apo extenders were 10 a penny before the Leica FF digital appeared and the adapters to use them ..... and more were snapped up when it became apparent R lenses worked exceptionally well with the SL and were ergonomically suited to the larger camera body, but  you shouldn't have much difficulty locating a pair, although prices have gone up a fair bit since I got mine. 

there are also ROM and non ROM versions ...... the former theoretically should transfer lens identity details to the SL ..... but I don't think any ROM versions of the 1.4x adapter and 280/2.8 exist (the lens stopped production in 1996), so that is a bit academic unless you have and use other ROM'ed R lenses .....

Edited November 17, 2018 by thighslapper

[helged]

Not about the two (excellent) Leica 280mm primes, but nevertheless: We can expect Sigma to come with one/some long focal length lenses in L-mount, hopefully/possibly in 2019. These lenses will likely be somewhat pricy (like Sigma 500mm f4 Sport), but certainly much less expensive than a new Leica counterpart.

On the Leica side, the SL 90-280 f4 is a fine lens with good colours and top sharpness, but on the short end without an extender. As has been mentioned top in the thread, the Nikon 300mm f4 PF (fresnel) lens, particularly with the 1.4 extender, but also with the 1.7 and 2.0 extenders, is a fine alternative on the SL. At least if you can live with manual focus (af works mostly, but depending on contrast, high-lights etc., manual focus may be required).