Adapting macro lenses

[HeinzX]

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All the pictures [in the macro image thread] have been made to achieve highest magnification possible - because of reasons of
improved omparability. It is a pity, that there exists no possibiltiy to adapt special macro lenses
from other producers like Canon on the CL, which is possible with the SL and the Novoflex adapter. Esp.
the Canon MP-E would allow much bigger magnification at large weight. This lens has a magnification
factor from 1:1 up to 5:1 with the SL - together with the CL the reault would be 1,5 : 1 up to 7,5 : 1.
I do not know, if there is any chance for such an adapter in future - I would buy it immediately.

Edited August 18, 2018 by jaapv
clarification because of thread split

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[albert]

Naked 18-57 on CL.

[dkCambridgeshire]

All the pictures have been made to achieve highest magnification possible - because of reasons of

improved omparability. It is a pity, that there exists no possibiltiy to adapt special macro lenses

from other producers like Canon on the CL, which is possible with the SL and the Novoflex adapter. Esp.

the Canon MP-E would allow much bigger magnification at large weight. This lens has a magnification

factor from 1:1 up to 5:1 with the SL - together with the CL the reault would be 1,5 : 1 up to 7,5 : 1.

I do not know, if there is any chance for such an adapter in future - I would buy it immediately.

 

 

You might find this MP-E 65mm vs Russian Lomo microscope lens comparison interesting 

 

https://www.closeuphotography.com/lomo-3-7x-objective

 

The Canon MP-E 65mm used at its max. magnification requires images to be stacked (unless the subject is perfectly flat and has no depth) … and as with all high-ish magnification macro objectives, requires awareness of 'effective aperture'. At 5x magnification and f2.8 set aperture, the effective aperture is f16.8 … which is getting into diffraction territory … thus go easy with the aperture adjustment at high magnification to avoid image degradation due to diffraction effects.

 

The MP-E 65mm is a fine lens but has its limitations as regards CA and there are budget priced 'high magnification' alternatives which can give comparable or better results …. and which with a little ingenuity are easy to adapt to the SL/TL mount.

 

And here's another comparison test which highlights some of the Canon MP-E 65mm lens' shortcomings https://www.closeuphotography.com/2x-lens-test

 

Anyone considering acquiring a Canon MP-E 65/2.8 lens should also read some of the comparisons documented on the Photomacrography Forum  …https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/    where there are also many tips and lots of advice available regarding high magnification imaging and the best ways of achieving same. But please be aware it's a vast subject and there are usually several different ways of achieving the same result.  

 

dunk 

Edited August 17, 2018 by dkCambridgeshire

[albert]

Huh?

[jaapv]

All the pictures have been made to achieve highest magnification possible - because of reasons of

improved omparability. It is a pity, that there exists no possibiltiy to adapt special macro lenses

from other producers like Canon on the CL, which is possible with the SL and the Novoflex adapter. Esp.

the Canon MP-E would allow much bigger magnification at large weight. This lens has a magnification

factor from 1:1 up to 5:1 with the SL - together with the CL the reault would be 1,5 : 1 up to 7,5 : 1.

I do not know, if there is any chance for such an adapter in future - I would buy it immediately.

Why not? Use the L-M adapter and an M-EOS adapter. Better because you get wheel image magnification and a lot cheaper than any Leica one-step adapter would be.

[albert]

“I see” , said the blind man.

[HeinzX]

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Unfortunately there is only one adapter which allows to change the aperture of the Canon lenses - that is the Novoflex adapter for the SL. By the way it is possible to get fantastic results with the MP-E 65 and the SL - at least as good as on the top Canons. Ifyou know, how to use it, which is not so simple.

 

The results with the other Canon macro lenses are very good too. And I would like if I could use the 180 mm macro Canon not only with the SL, where I use it occasionally evenwith a 1,4 extender, but on the CL too. And that without restrictions regarding

changing aperture. That would result in a macro with a total focal length (@FF) of

nearly 380 mm.

 

Anyway I have sent a E-mail to Novoflex asking them, if they are thinking about an

adapter for the CL. Will see if they answer and what.

Edited August 18, 2018 by HeinzX

[jaapv]

I see, you want to use aperture-ringless Canon lenses on the CL. Yes, that does not exist, I fear.

[tritentrue]

Unfortunately there is only one adapter which allows to change the aperture of the Canon lenses - that is the Novoflex adapter for the SL. By the way it is possible to get fantastic results with the MP-E 65 and the SL - at least as good as on the top Canons. Ifyou know, how to use it, which is not so simple.

 

The results with the other Canon macro lenses are very good too. And I would like if I could use the 180 mm macro Canon not only with the SL, where I use it occasionally evenwith a 1,4 extender, but on the CL too. And that without restrictions regarding

changing aperture. That would result in a macro with a total focal length (@FF) of

nearly 380 mm.

 

Anyway I have sent a E-mail to Novoflex asking them, if they are thinking about an

adapter for the CL. Will see if they answer and what.

 

 

Some time ago I sent a query to Novoflex asking why the Novoflex SL/NIK adapter could not even facilitate passage of light through the TL2.  The response I received was "Besides using the same bayonet mount and flange size the T/TL and SL are completely different cameras."  In view of the fact that SL and TL lenses are fully functional with either camera, the response made no sense to me.

 

I hope you have better luck.

 

[dkCambridgeshire]

I see, you want to use aperture-ringless Canon lenses on the CL. Yes, that does not exist, I fear.

 

 

 

If anyone wants to use the Canon MP-E 65mm on the CL, it is possible to fit an EOS/LM adapter and the Leica M Adapter T … which will then image at the lens' full f2.8 aperture … which is not as strange or impractical as it sounds for high magnification macro imaging.

 

At f2.8, the effective apertures, and resultant depth of field (DOF),  at the various magnifications from 1x to 5x are:

 

1x  f5.6  DOF 0.396mm, 2x  f8.4  DOF 0.148mm, 3x  f11.2  DOF 0.088mm, 4x  f14  DOF 0.062mm, and, 5x  f16.8  DOF 0.048mm.  

 

Because it's best to 'stack' images at high magnifications to obtain the required depth of field, the lens'  full f2.8 aperture, and its resultant 'effective apertures' throughout the 1x to 5x magnifications, makes it a very usable lens … and with virtually NIL image diffraction degradation at the 'wide open' aperture. 

 

If using the Leica SL and Novoflex EF to SL 'smart adapter', it's tempting to consider stopping the lens down for increased DOF.

 

However, if e.g. stopping down to e.g. f8 at 5x mag, the resultant effective aperture = f48 … which is well into diffraction territory and resultant poor imaging. 

 

The simple formula for calculating effective aperture f', for set aperture f, and magnification m is :

 

f'= f(m+1)  i.e. just add 1 to the known magnification and multiply by the set aperture figure.

 

Thus e.g. if working at magnification 2x and with set aperture f5.6, effective aperture = 5.6 x 3 = f16.8 … which is likely just bordering on image diffraction territory … so, would be better to work at f4 and resultant effective aperture 4 x 3 = f12.

 

The Canon MP-E 65/2.8 lens was designed way back in the film era and first released in 1999 … before digital SLRs were in common use … and when film users expected lenses to stop down to e.g. f16. 

 

Nowadays it's unlikely that photomacrography enthusiasts would consider using f16 for high magnification imaging … or even at life size i.e. 1:1 where the set f16 results in effective aperture f32 ... which is well into image diffraction territory. 

 

dunk 

[ramarren]

I don't really need to adapt other manufacturers' macro lenses ... I'm quite satisfied with the results from using Leica's own macro lenses.

 

That said, I have used my Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 Pre-AI lens very successfully on the M-P, SL, and now CL without any problems, achieving up to 1:1 magnification with the M extension tube. Not super-high magnification, but good enough for most needs.

[HeinzX]

A very good article dealing with macros and magnification - here a link. Unfortunately only in German.

 

https://www.traumflieger.de/reports/Makro-Fotografie/Workshop-Makrofotografie/Beugungsunschaerfe-und-warum-sie-bei-Makros-staerker-zuschlaegt::1402.html

[HeinzX]

I got an answer by Novoflex today. According to them, there is no chance for an adapter from Canon EF to Leica CL because of other protocol than of the CL than that of the SL. I do not quot understand this, why should not be a new adapter for EF to CL, but perhaps there are patent reasons. I do not know, if the SL adapter has been developped with agreement of Leica or not. The ultimate result is, that there will be not such an adapter by Novoflex, which is a pity.  If another company can and will develop one is more than uncertain.

[ramarren]

It's mostly impossible to do anything other than conjecture about it from our side of the table, which isn't really a useful thing to spend time on.

 

That said, I didn't buy a Leica body to adapt other manufacturers' lenses to. I bought a Leica body because I like to use Leica lenses, and Leica bodies support Leica lenses best IMO. I've only occasionally stuck my Nikkors or Sigma on the CL for the sake of giving them a whirl. 

[HeinzX]

I use Leica lensens too - with  my SL and with the CL.  But some lenses are not available from Leica and will probably never be. Under these circumstances I find it very useful to adapt these lenses. And iI am not willing to keep an extra Canon body just for these purposes, In my opinion it is no sin to do so.

Edited August 21, 2018 by HeinzX

[ramarren]

I don't think it's a sin or anything like that to use any lens I can fit to any camera I want. 

But if there is no solution for a particular fitment, well, either come up with one or accept that it wasn't meant to be. 

 

It's just gear. I very nearly kept a Pentax DSLR body around simply because I liked the rendering of their FA45mm f/1.9 Limited lens so much, but I ended up selling it because it was too much of a PITA to manage another system just for that, and it didn't seem to adapt well to other cameras. No big deal, other lenses have proved to be just as nice to my eye...

[albert]

What’s the word regarding the Leica 60mm macro for $2,995.00? Would it be that much more wonderful than the 18-56? I ask because it’s under consideration.

[albert]

Found the thread. Ignore my post. Please and thank you.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[HeinzX]

In the meantime I have found a possibility to use my Canon EF macro lenses together with the CL with other aperture than wide open. The procedure is very similiar to that with a Canon to fix any aperture. But you need either a Canon or a Leica SL with the Novoflex adapter to do this. I adapt the Canon lens with the Novoflex adapter on the SL - then I chose the aperture in the A mode. Afterwards a quick tap on the depth preview button and release the lens. And the chosen aperture will remain  stable and it is possible to use the lens with an adapter Canon EF (i.e. from Fotodiox) and an adapter Leica M to Leica TL/CL together with the CL. Changing the aperture is not possible on the CL - if desired that has to be done together with the SL or any Canon.  Sounds more complicated than it is. But with a Canon 180 mm macro and a 1,4 converter on the CL a macro lens with an focal length (@Fullframe) of app. 380 mm is available. And in my opinion this may be worth the procedure in same cases and if you have already the lens(es) and a SL or Canon.

Edited August 28, 2018 by HeinzX