Talk me out of selling my M10...

[pmendelson]

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I am on the verge of selling my M10 to get the Hasselblad X1D (I know, totally different type of camera).  I had the M10 once before, sold it, and bought it again - the simplicity, beauty and quality of the camera really called out to me (especially compared to the A7RIII).  I also love the small M-mount lenses.  

 

However, since getting the Leica Q (probably my favorite camera of all time), I find the Q covers most situations were I would previously take the M10.   The only real drawback I find is the fixed lens on the Q, but I like the 28mm FOV for many situations.  I also love the quiet shutter and blazing fast AF of the Q.  Right not in fact my Q is getting much more use than my M10.

 

From a file quality standpoint, the M10 can produce excellent prints of course, but at the same time the increased dynamic range and resolution of the medium format cameras is noticeable in many situations (I sell fine art prints and many clients ask for very large prints).  I used to have the Fuji GFX (too bulky) and the Pentax 645z (same) and the file quality was stunning.  The X1D form factor is really nice (I tried a demo unit) and I can carry it with me in many of the same situations where I currently carry the M10.  The lens selection is very limited right now but they have what I need.

 

So the rational side of my mind says sell the M10 and lenses and get the X1D, while the more emotional side of me is having a hard time parting with it.  

 

I am kind of talking out loud to myself here to help me figure this out, but any comments, especially from people who have or have used the X1D, are appreciated.   I know everyone has different use scenarios and preferences, but I often find people's comments useful nonetheless.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

 

[Gobert]

Why should someone else convince you not to sell? It’s you who cannot decide and who thinks that another system might suit your needs better?

[madrigalmaster]

I personally would discourage you from this move.

 

The Hasselblad is attractive but you are buying a camera from a company owned and sold several times recently and currently in the hands of a chinese firm.

 

You may find yourself with a useless brick if they decide not to support this line of their extensive many business.

 

Leica's 24 MP files are good and I have made several large prints as big as 60 to 70 inches and they look good, it all depends how you treat your files before printing.

 

Is up to you of course but give it some research before you jump.You have made a good investment with the M10

 

 

Best

[6bit]

The X2D is rumored to be around the corner. Does that help?

[Hello]

Also consider that while the GFX is bulky, the rumored more like an X-Pro version is in likely development.

[pmendelson]

Thanks - good points about a potential X2D and Fuji medium format rangefinder, and company support behind future Hasselblads...  Perhaps I should wait until Photokina and see what's announced. 

 

I have seen large prints from the M10 that look beautiful - it's just that it's less forgiving in situations with very large dynamic range (and sometimes I am not perfect with metering....)

 

I just put my Sony gear up for sale so maybe I will hold onto the M10 for the time being.   

Edited July 28, 2018 by pmendelson

[otto.f]

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I personally would discourage you from this move.

 

The Hasselblad is attractive but you are buying a camera from a company owned and sold several times recently and currently in the hands of a chinese firm.

 

You may find yourself with a useless brick if they decide not to support this line of their extensive many business.

 

Leica's 24 MP files are good and I have made several large prints as big as 60 to 70 inches and they look good, it all depends how you treat your files before printing.

 

Is up to you of course but give it some research before you jump.You have made a good investment with the M10

 

 

Best

I can only agree. I sold my M10 because I was not satisfied with the colors. Hasselblad does not make it against a Leica S in that respect and in lenses either. There is a thread here on the forum from Neil with comparisons, Hasselblad suffers from magenta cast compared to Leica S. Edited July 28, 2018 by otto.f

[pico]

You are apparently not risk averse so I say go for the Hasselblad, enjoy the dynamic range, the camera's form factor - be happy!

[happymac]

I thought about buying a X1D before I decided to stay with Leica. The Hasselblad is an amazing camera with awesome image quality. But body and lenses cost even more than their Leica twins. Coming from R4, R5, M6, M9 to the M10 I appreciate weight and size of the Leica M system. And I wondered if I had to buy a newer iMac, a newer NAS etc. to handle the huge files produced by the X1D. Further to that the EVF of the X1D didn‘t convince me. The quality is as the Visoflex 020, but the optical view finder of an M10 is state of the art shooting street scenes. That‘s why I’ve been in love with my M10 since May 2018.

 

Tom

Edited July 28, 2018 by happymac

[cp995]

Thanks - good points about a potential X2D and Fuji medium format rangefinder...

 

Stop!

The X2D and the Fuji are not Rangefinder cameras like your M10.

If you bought the M10 because of the RF (like I did) you'll not be satisfied.

Edited July 28, 2018 by cp995

[JDFlood]

It took me decades to be ready for the Leica M. My prime interest was composition for most of the time and I wanted the camera to get out of the way. So in the digital realm I bought Nikon up to the 800 model, Leica X2 and Fuji tp Xpro2. Then finally an M10... for the first couple months I was thrilled at having a real “Leica M” but then this whole world opened for me... I knew composition, so the camera slowed me down and put the controls I should be micromanaging at my fingertips. The unique color, nuance, and rendering of the lenses / camera completely overwhelmed me. I could care less about getting more IQ through more pixels anymore, unless it is special circumstances. I have no interest in medium format anymore (I have my Mamiya 645 film camera in the closet somewhere). I will not get rid of my Nikon D800 (good for action... my dogs running round) or big landscapes, Fuji for traveling light or backpacking, but when I want to do creative photography, and enjoy it, it is without question the M10. There are a lot of ways to enjoy photography, changing gear can produce positive feedback, long term evaluation of gear, sometimes, as in my case, not ready for crafting the nuances of each photograph. For me the M10 is the ultimate “photographers” camera. So unless the M11 has some compelling story, i’m No longer looking at any other cameras. Hope this is useful in your search. Mine’s over.

Edited July 28, 2018 by JDFlood

[jmahto]

I am on the verge of selling my M10 to get the Hasselblad X1D (I know, totally different type of camera).  I had the M10 once before, sold it, and bought it again - the simplicity, beauty and quality of the camera really called out to me (especially compared to the A7RIII).  I also love the small M-mount lenses.  

 

However, since getting the Leica Q (probably my favorite camera of all time), I find the Q covers most situations were I would previously take the M10.   The only real drawback I find is the fixed lens on the Q, but I like the 28mm FOV for many situations.  I also love the quiet shutter and blazing fast AF of the Q.  Right not in fact my Q is getting much more use than my M10.

 

From a file quality standpoint, the M10 can produce excellent prints of course, but at the same time the increased dynamic range and resolution of the medium format cameras is noticeable in many situations (I sell fine art prints and many clients ask for very large prints).  I used to have the Fuji GFX (too bulky) and the Pentax 645z (same) and the file quality was stunning.  The X1D form factor is really nice (I tried a demo unit) and I can carry it with me in many of the same situations where I currently carry the M10.  The lens selection is very limited right now but they have what I need.

 

So the rational side of my mind says sell the M10 and lenses and get the X1D, while the more emotional side of me is having a hard time parting with it.  

 

I am kind of talking out loud to myself here to help me figure this out, but any comments, especially from people who have or have used the X1D, are appreciated.   I know everyone has different use scenarios and preferences, but I often find people's comments useful nonetheless.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

Curious, if your need is large fine arts prints then why small form factor is an important criteria? I would assume that camera bulk should not matter for such usecase.

[pgh]

Curious, if your need is large fine arts prints then why small form factor is an important criteria? I would assume that camera bulk should not matter for such usecase.

I can only speak for myself, but I walk a lot while I photograph. I also make large prints. When push comes to shove, it is much better for me to enlarge a file instead of carry around a 4x5 or digital MF slr (not that I could afford). The X1d is very tempting to me for this reason, however I wouldn't sell my M10 for it. I have been pondering getting rid of my Sony stuff for that, but it leaves me with a gap in some practical situations and as someone who still does assignment work, sometimes you need a more functional tool like an SLR or a Sony. If I didn't do commissions and my photography never demanded a certain amount of quickness or responsiveness, then think an M10/X1D combination would be great. The Sony is too close to redundancy to the Hasselblad if file quality is the primary concern. 

 

To the OP, if you don't use it, get rid of it! No need to be sentimental. If Leica made a Q version at 35 and 50mm, I might be in the same boat as you. I hate 28mm though, couldn't do it. The gap between 28mm and 35mm for me, in terms of actually seeing and composing out in the world, is much larger than the 7mm makes it seems. 

[Simon]

I completely understand asking others for opinions and advice as I'm a very indecisive person myself, but I'm unsure how much it helps or whether it even does at all most of the time.  That said, here are some of my thoughts:

 

How long did you have to play with the X1D?  I've never touched one but since you said you liked the "blazing fast AF of the Q" I wonder whether the X1D will satisfy in this regard.  From what I've read and seen online it's no speed-demon and early reviews said AF speed is not one of its strengths.  I don't know whether that's since been improved, but it seems a likely target for improvement in an eventual X2D (if that's what they call it) if and when that arrives.  This lends weight to the "hold off" argument.  The X1D was and still is a first-generation product after all.

 

Also, since you've already sold and re-bought an M10 once previously, what happens if you go through this again?  Have you considered this as a possibility and can you afford to do so financially?  If yes, you could absolutely take a punt and see, but if selling the M10 is required I'd want to be more sure than you appear to be, especially given your emotional attachments to the M.  Can you buy the X1D while keeping the M10 and Q then after a period of familiarisation sell whichever one you like or use the least?  On the other hand; though I don't know what fine-art photography is, if it means or requires carefully planned or studio shots then I agree size isn't that critical for this use and the X1D is still the smallest MF digital I'm aware of.  Plus, you said you planned to keep the Q anyway for street and casual use.  Out of interest, which M lenses do you have currently?

 

So overall, I'd exercise caution and restraint and maybe try to secure a longer demo of the X1D before deciding.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Simon

[pmendelson]

Thank you everyone for your feedback.  By "fine art" prints I just mean I sell my prints through galleries and interior designers, but the actual photographs are taken using whatever tool I have at hand in whatever situation I am in (even an iPhone at times).  In other words, I am often not using a tripod and don't do studio work (or paid assignments).

 

I have the following lenses: WATE, Voigtlander 21mm f/1.8, 35mm Summicron ASPH, Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 ZM, and 50mm Summilux ASPH.  I haven't settled on a 35mm - the Summicron is nice and compact while the Zeiss is sharp as a knife and faster.   The X1D was an early demo so there were still lots of bugs, but I did like the design and ergonomics a lot.

 

I think the smart thing is to hold onto the M10, see what is announced in the next few months, and then see where I am.  I would ideally like to settle on one system only, and can't afford both Leica and Hasselblad systems.  I did go through this cycle once before, and don't want to have to think about buying the M10 for a third time...

 

Thanks again for the input - believe it or not it does help me to feel comfortable with my decision.

[IkarusJohn]

Hi Peter,

 

What is important to you? The image? Or the tool you use to capture the image?

 

The camera is a lovely object, when well conceived and well made. That’s why so many of us love Leica, and why we’re here. But in terms of image quality, it’s just a lens and sensor holder, right?

 

If image quaity is your driver (and it sounds like it might be), check your files to see which images meet your needs and go with that system and sell everything else. That should clarify your thinking - rangefinder/evf/dslr - it doesn’t matter, right? Then again, image quality and pleasure of use may coincide with the M10. I’d then sell what I’m not using and buy another M lens.

 

The X1d is just an itch, isn’t it?

 

John

[pmendelson]

Thanks John - both the image and tool I use to capture it are important to me.  I love the act of taking photos and being in the "zone" while exploring a new (or old) place, and the tool can greatly enhance or detract from that experience.  From that perspective, I love both the M10 and the Q.  

 

Then of course the image is important as well, and from that perspective I also love the output I am getting from the M10 and Q almost but not quite all the time.  Sometimes I blow highlights and can't recover them, or boosting the shadows is too noisy.  Not often, but sometimes, and that's where the X1D would help.  Same with having to crop or blow up photos - a common size for me to print is 40" x 60" or larger and the bigger sensor helps.  It's all a balancing act.  I think I am going to stick with the M10 for now and see how it goes because I do love using it as well as the output almost all the time.  And if something is announced in the next few months that's solves the DR/resolution question while being as enjoyable to use as the M10 and Q, I'll consider it.

 

Thanks again,

 

Peter

[Jeff S]

Stop!

The X2D and the Fuji are not Rangefinder cameras like your M10.

If you bought the M10 because of the RF (like I did) you'll not be satisfied.

He was referring to the rumored Fuji medium format RF camera. Of course the GFX is not.

 

Jeff

[sblitz]

As noted above, you are going from a RF to an SLR experience (meaning you are seeing through the lens not the wider scene with the smaller lens area masked). For some type of shooting the SLR is better -- thinking models, portraits -- and not for others. Which do you prefer? Personally, I would take up the SL (if you love the Q you will love the SL) and with an adapter you can still use your M lenses .... just a thought

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lexontario]

Wait and see, the new Nikon mirrorless camera ( 50 to 100 megapixels) with new Z mount lenses, it could be a possible candidate.

Rumours are it may be offered in medium and full frame(FX) format with compatibility with current FX lenses with adaptor.

No sense rushing until photokina when manufactures release the newest technology

Edited July 28, 2018 by lexontario