Upgrade from X Vario to TL2?

[firoze]

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Hello. I have been using a X Vario for the past four years, and have enjoyed using it. But I am increasingly frustrated with its slow autofocus, esp in low light. Also its metering/whitebalance on landscapes is often "off" - the skies often look Cyan rather than deep blue. Of course when the metering is right, the results are superb. Unfortunately when travelling there is often no time to try different exposure settings. I have tried auto-bracketing exposures but that did not prove satisfactory. Note that my VX is not a faulty camera, another XV I tried had similar issues.

 

In view of the above, I am thinking of switching to a TL2 with 18-56 zoom.

 

My questions:

 

1) Is the TL2 autofocus significantly better than the XV?

 



2) Are the auto-exposures on the TL2 more accurate? Does is also occasionally suffer from the Cyan sky syndrome?

 

3) Is the 18-56 zoom comparable in quality to the XV lens, and does it have that fabled "Leica glow" like the VX lens has?

 

4) Is the 18-56 zoom prone to flare? I have seen a few photos from this lens exhibiting flare, or a washed out background, hence am asking.

 

5) I have read the the out-of-camera jpegs form the TL2 at standard setting are "flat" or bland. Is this true? I normally use DNG, but on the XV, when it does get the exposure right, the jpegs are so good that it is difficult to get better results from DNG.

 

I would be most grateful for your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

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[ropo54]

The autofocus will be noticeably faster on the TL2 vs. the XV.

The images with the 18-56 on the TL2 will be quite sharp and have that Leica look, but with a slightly different appearance to those on the XVario, not better or worse, just perhaps more 'modern'. 

The jpegs on the TL2 were flat in my eyes and so I always converted to DNGs. (Not so with the CL, which has much nicer and very usable jpegs).

I would add that for low light the TL2 will give you some nice lens options. 

My opinions only!

 

I miss my XVario, but also thoroughly enjoyed my TL2. I switched to a CL, but miss the TL2 for its ergonomic feel. (I may switch back to the TL2 but the CL has a better EVF and faster AF and, as mentioned, much nicer jpegs. As for image quality, I did not see any difference between the TL2 and CL. Both are terrific).

Rob

Edited April 7, 2018 by ropo54

[firoze]

The autofocus will be noticeably faster on the TL2 vs. the XV.

The images with the 18-56 on the TL2 will be quite sharp and have that Leica look, but with a slightly different appearance to those on the XVario, not better or worse, just perhaps more 'modern'. 

The jpegs on the TL2 were flat in my eyes and so I always converted to DNGs. (Not so with the CL, which has much nicer and very usable jpegs).

I would add that for low light the TL2 will give you some nice lens options. 

My opinions only!

 

I miss my XVario, but also thoroughly enjoyed my TL2. I switched to a CL, but miss the TL2 for its ergonomic feel. (I may switch back to the TL2 but the CL has a better EVF and faster AF and, as mentioned, much nicer jpegs. As for image quality, I did not see any difference between the TL2 and CL. Both are terrific).

Rob

Thank you Rob, that’s very helpful! Good to know the AF is faster, and that the TL zoom lens is good too. Pity about the flat jpegs though; did you try adjusting the jpeg settings in the camera?

[ropo54]

Thank you Rob, that’s very helpful! Good to know the AF is faster, and that the TL zoom lens is good too. Pity about the flat jpegs though; did you try adjusting the jpeg settings in the camera?

 

No, I did not adjusting the settings to compensate - it can be done in post processing too, but the dng files are much nicer and are comparable to the CL's dngs. 

The TL's 18-56 is excellent. It is a bit of a slow lens, but as I mentioned, for low light you can mix and match many options. 

Regards,

Rob

[firoze]

No, I did not adjusting the settings to compensate - it can be done in post processing too, but the dng files are much nicer and are comparable to the CL's dngs. 

The TL's 18-56 is excellent. It is a bit of a slow lens, but as I mentioned, for low light you can mix and match many options. 

Regards,

Rob

Thanks Rob!

[darylgo]

Every digital Leica camera I've owned has cyan skies, I thought the sensor needed adjustment until realizing the skies are indeed more cyan than blue.  The sky can be adjsuted with sliders in Lightroom.  

 

My TL was an exercise in patience with autofocus, The TL2 iirc is the same processor, perhaps the CL has been improved.  The SL has excellent autofocus and I would want the camera to be up to those standards before making a switch.  

 

Image quality out of the TL is exceptionally good, all the lenses are Leica quality both build and imaging.  

Edited April 7, 2018 by darylgo

[firoze]

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Every digital Leica camera I've owned has cyan skies, I thought the sensor needed adjustment until realizing the skies are indeed more cyan than blue.  The sky can be adjsuted with sliders in Lightroom.  

 

My TL was an exercise in patience with autofocus, The TL2 iirc is the same processor, perhaps the CL has been improved.  The SL has excellent autofocus and I would want the camera to be up to those standards before making a switch.  

 

Image quality out of the TL is exceptionally good, all the lenses are Leica quality both build and imaging.

 

This Cyan sky issue seems to be a Leica trait, even my D-Lux 4 exibhited this phenomenon, though not to the same extent as the XV. I have rarely seen, if at all, this phenomenon with other camera makes.You may be right about the sky actually being Cyan to a certain extent, though the strange thing is my iPhone produces blue skies at the same scene where the Leica produces Cyan. On a recent trip to New Zealand, the iPhone 7 Plus Photos generally had better colour balance than the XV.

[darylgo]

To correct any misconceptions I may have implied with my post, the skies on Leica digital are overly cyan.   When the sky leans in that direction it appears to multiply the effect and go too far cyan.  What I find with early morning sunrise photos is Leica sensors pick up the slight band of nuanced green in the sky opposite the sun very accurately, also the pink scattered light and the blue earth shadow.   Leica has indicated they have corrected the IR sensor pollution issue with the M9 forward but not to my satisfaction, I continue to use UV/IR filters whenever possible on the M240, perhaps it's related to cyan skies.  

[firoze]

To correct any misconceptions I may have implied with my post, the skies on Leica digital are overly cyan.   When the sky leans in that direction it appears to multiply the effect and go too far cyan.  What I find with early morning sunrise photos is Leica sensors pick up the slight band of nuanced green in the sky opposite the sun very accurately, also the pink scattered light and the blue earth shadow.   Leica has indicated they have corrected the IR sensor pollution issue with the M9 forward but not to my satisfaction, I continue to use UV/IR filters whenever possible on the M240, perhaps it's related to cyan skies.  

 

That is very interesting! Now that you mention it, I recall that whenever I took photos with the XV from behind glass like a car windscreen or a helicopter canopy, the colour rendition is beautiful. Perhaps the glass cuts out the UV/IR and allows the sensor to record the correct colours. I should try a filter on the lens. Would you suggest a UV or a IR filter?

[gbealnz]

Try both, report back.

I've got both (UV and IR/UV) so will also dig them out and try.

Can't say I've noticed cyan skies though.

Gary

[firoze]

Try both, report back.

I've got both (UV and IR/UV) so will also dig them out and try.

Can't say I've noticed cyan skies though.

Gary

Thank you, I will. I’ll have to buy the filters first so it will take some time.

[darylgo]

That is very interesting! Now that you mention it, I recall that whenever I took photos with the XV from behind glass like a car windscreen or a helicopter canopy, the colour rendition is beautiful. Perhaps the glass cuts out the UV/IR and allows the sensor to record the correct colours. I should try a filter on the lens. Would you suggest a UV or a IR filter?

 

Have you worked with profiles in your software program, you might find it will solve any issues and make the filter unnecessary.   I was looking at my latest pictures from the M240 and don't see the cyan I had seen when the camera was first introduced.  Nikon or Canon would be deeper blue but the Leica profile in Lightroom would be a good start.   If selecting the camera profile doesn't solve the issue go to the HSL section in the develop module, click on Hue and move the Blue  slider to the right, you should see the change from cyan to more of an acceptable blue sky.  

[firoze]

Have you worked with profiles in your software program, you might find it will solve any issues and make the filter unnecessary.   I was looking at my latest pictures from the M240 and don't see the cyan I had seen when the camera was first introduced.  Nikon or Canon would be deeper blue but the Leica profile in Lightroom would be a good start.   If selecting the camera profile doesn't solve the issue go to the HSL section in the develop module, click on Hue and move the Blue  slider to the right, you should see the change from cyan to more of an acceptable blue sky.  

 

Thank you Darylgo, I will try that. 

[dnease]

White balance is also something to consider if you are seeing this. You may find it handy to carry along a grey card for calibrating that.

[firoze]

White balance is also something to consider if you are seeing this. You may find it handy to carry along a grey card for calibrating that.

 

Thank you. Yes I should experiment with white balance.