Using M240 to catch action

[pico]

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I worked with a man I consider a great sports photographer before auto-focus and zooms who had hundreds of images published (plus three news Pulitzers). It was if he lived 10 milliseconds in the future.

 

In the last decade he used auto-focus and I asked him how he felt about it, he said, "About how I feel about sliced bread." I still don't know what he meant!

 

(In our household we do not buy sliced bread and I am as bad at slicing as I was as a sports photographer.)

Edited March 27, 2018 by pico

[jmahto]

I worked with a man I consider a great sports photographer before auto-focus and zooms who had hundreds of images published (plus three news Pulitzers). It was if he lived 10 milliseconds in the future.

 

In the last decade he used auto-focus and I asked him how he felt about it, he said, "About how I feel about sliced bread." I still don't know what he meant!

 

(In our household we do not buy sliced bread and I am as bad at slicing as I was as a sports photographer.)

Slicing bread is dangerous!

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jayant,

 

Nice photos.

 

F 3.2  @ 1/25 of a second is actually an EV of 8.

 

F3.2 @ around 2&1/2 seconds would be an EV of around 3.

 

Whatever the EV, the photos are quite nice.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[jmahto]

Hello Jayant,

 

Nice photos.

 

F 3.2 @ 1/25 of a second is actually an EV of 8.

 

F3.2 @ around 2&1/2 seconds would be an EV of around 3.

 

Whatever the EV, the photos are quite nice.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Thanks Michael.

 

But EV3 is right for 3.2, 1/25 and ISO3200

Punch in these numbers in http://endoflow.com/exposure/

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jayant,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I could not get your calculator to work. I am not very good with computers.

 

Let me explain how I came to the answer that I did.

 

EV is a system where each lens opening & each shutter speed is given a value.

 

You simply add the lens opening number to the shutter speed number & the total is the EV.

 

It has nothing to do with film speed.

 

EV       Shutter speed           lens opening

 

-5             32 Sec

-4             16 Sec

-3               8 Sec                       

-2               4 Sec                       F 0.5

-1               2 Sec                       F 0.7

+/-0            1 Sec                       F 1

+1              1/2 Sec                    F 1.4

+2              1/4 Sec                    F 2

+3              1/8 Sec                    F 2.8

+4              1/15 Sec                  F 4

+5              1/30 Sec                  F 5.6

+6              1/60 Sec                  F 8

+7              1/125 Sec                F 11

+8              1/250 Sec                F 16

+9              1/500 Sec                F 22

+10            1/1000 Sec              F 32

+11             1/2000 Sec             F 45

+12             1/4000 Sec             F 64

 

Example: F 2 @ 1 Sec 

                F 2 = EV 2 

                1 Sec = EV 0

                EV 2 + EV 0 = 2

                F 2 @ 1 Sec = EV of 2

 

Example: F4 @ 1/250 Sec

                F4 = EV 4

                1/250 Sec = EV 8

                EV 4 + EV 8 = EV 12

                 F4 @ 1/250 Sec = EV of 12

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 29, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jayant,

 

A key to remembering EV numbers is:

 

F 1 = EV 0

1 Sec = EV 0

 

So: F1 @ 1 Sec = EV  0

 

And then you can simply count forward & back with either number.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 29, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[Peter Kilmister]

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@:Michael Geschlecht:

 

I haven't been this lost with maths since I was learning calculus in 1965. I have never used calculus since then. I also learnt to use a slide rule and log tables. No further use for any of that for 50 years!

 

"If it looks good it is probably perfect", is a better philosophy for a non-maths person like me. However, I do appreciate the brain numbing work you have put into it  and I a happy for you to post this stuff even if I can't make any sense of it. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Peter,

 

Thank you.

 

Mathematics is just a language. No different than Calo or Tagalog.

 

I have noticed that in this World many people would write what you did about their mathematical ability when, as with you, they use sophisticated mathematical principals to do things throughout their day.

 

This is an anti-intelectual Society where people are often led to assume that mathematics is some type of esoteric field that is only knowable by a select few. Not accurate.

 

You, as a photographer, are constantly balancing mathematical principals 1 against the other, as you determine exposure, composition, lighting & all kinds of other things. You do the same in all types of other things that you do throughout the day. It is not accurate to write so negatively about yourself.

 

By the way, If you print out the chart that I built by begining with F1 @ 1 Sec = EV 0 and carry it with you as you do your photography you will see that it can be helpful in a number of situations such as: If the exposure is F 2 @ 1/125 what shutter speed is needed for an F stop of F8:

 

F2 @ 1/125 Sec = EV 9

 

F 8 = EV 6

 

9 minus 6 = 3

 

Shutter Speed of EV 3 = 1/8 Sec

 

F 8 @ 1/8 Sec = EV 9

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 29, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[Peter Kilmister]

Michael, I bow to your expertise and I really appreciate your wisdom. Thank you.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Peter,

 

Another thought.

 

Mathematics & a lot of other stuff are like tennis.

 

The more you use them & practice. The better you get.

 

You might try putting this sheet in your pocket & looking at it once in a while, while you are taking photos & you might notice that the more that you look at it while you are trying to determine or to analyze exposure, depth of field or subject motion, the more sense that it makes.

 

Not necessarily in a day or in a week, but little by little, & then, 1 day, it may well seem reasonable.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[jmahto]

Hello Peter,

 

Thank you.

 

Mathematics is just a language. No different than Calo or Tagalog.

 

I have noticed that in this World many people would write what you did about their mathematical ability when, as with you, they use sophisticated mathematical principals to do things throughout their day.

 

This is an anti-intelectual Society where people are often led to assume that mathematics is some type of esoteric field that is only knowable by a select few. Not accurate.

 

You, as a photographer, are constantly balancing mathematical principals 1 against the other, as you determine exposure, composition, lighting & all kinds of other things. You do the same in all types of other things that you do throughout the day. It is not accurate to write so negatively about yourself.

 

By the way, If you print out the chart that I built by begining with F1 @ 1 Sec = EV 0 and carry it with you as you do your photography you will see that it can be helpful in a number of situations such as: If the exposure is F 2 @ 1/125 what shutter speed is needed for an F stop of F8:

 

F2 @ 1/125 Sec = EV 9

 

F 8 = EV 6

 

9 minus 6 = 3

 

Shutter Speed of EV 3 = 1/8 Sec

 

F 8 @ 1/8 Sec = EV 9

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Thanks Michael. After reading your reply I realized that in the formula for calculating EV (represented in your chart and calculation method), the ISO is assumed to be 100. For other ISO one has to add to, or subtract to the EV number accordingly and state the EV number along with ISO value.

 

In any case, what I wanted to say in my OP that the light level was very low. The exposure settings shows that it was not easy to shoot Lonzo (my cat).

 

I liked how you visualized the calculation method. I don't do the calculation now since I don't do manual exposure. However, I have shot manually for first 4 years of my photography and used to remember sunny-16 rule by heart.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Thanks Michael. After reading your reply I realized that in the formula for calculating EV (represented in your chart and calculation method), the ISO is assumed to be 100. For other ISO one has to add to, or subtract to the EV number accordingly and state the EV number along with ISO value.

 

In any case, what I wanted to say in my OP that the light level was very low. The exposure settings shows that it was not easy to shoot Lonzo (my cat).

 

I liked how you visualized the calculation method. I don't do the calculation now since I don't do manual exposure. However, I have shot manually for first 4 years of my photography and used to remember sunny-16 rule by heart.

 

Hello Again Jayant,

 

EV is not related to film speed.

 

EV is simply a method of determining the amount of light transmitted by a certain combination of lens opening coupled with the amount of time that lens opening is open to allow a certain number of photons of light to go thru it.

 

An EV is always the SAME net combination of lens opening & shutter speed:  An EV of +2 is F 2 @ 1 Sec OR F 1.4 @ 1/2 Sec.

 

Both reflect the same amount of light that going thru a lens.

 

Film/Sensor sensitivity is something different.

 

The issue of film speed sometimes arises because: Since the Second Half of the 20th Century: People have sometimes used An EV representing a lens opening & a shutter speed and then used that number with a film which sometimes has a a speed of 100/21 as a reference point to measure a light meter's sensitivity with both in camera & hand held light meters. 

 

Example: With a film or with a sensor with a sensitivity of ISO 100/21: An MR/MR4 meter has a sensitivity range of: F 2 @ 1 Second to F 16 @ 1/1000 Second which is sometimes written:

 

                EV +2 to EV +18 @ ISO 100/21.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited April 2, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[Ko.Fe.]

The only action you can't catch with any M is action where tracking of moving object it needed. 

Cats don't mind flash, BTW.

[01af]

... I realized that in the formula for calculating EV [...], the ISO is assumed to be 100.

No, it's not. As Michael already explained, EV describes the combination of aperture and shutter speed and nothing else. So it is independent of ISO.

 

That's why "EV 8" does not specify a brightness. "EV 8 at ISO 100/21°" does.

[marchyman]

That's why "EV 8" does not specify a brightness. "EV 8 at ISO 100/21°" does.

 

 

I'd disagree with that statement.   EV 8 specifies a specific amount of light, the brightness if you will.  At least that is what I think of as brightness.   It does not specify how the camera will react, i.e. the camera sensor or films sensitivity to that amount of light.

 

You can convert EV to LUX: LUX = 2.5 * 2^EV

[jmahto]

Hello Again Jayant,

 

EV is not related to film speed.

 

EV is simply a method of determining the amount of light transmitted by a certain combination of lens opening coupled with the amount of time that lens opening is open to allow a certain number of photons of light to go thru it.

 

An EV is always the SAME net combination of lens opening & shutter speed:  An EV of +2 is F 2 @ 1 Sec OR F 1.4 @ 1/2 Sec.

 

Both reflect the same amount of light that going thru a lens.

 

Film/Sensor sensitivity is something different.

 

The issue of film speed sometimes arises because: Since the Second Half of the 20th Century: People have sometimes used An EV representing a lens opening & a shutter speed and then used that number with a film which sometimes has a a speed of 100/21 as a reference point to measure a light meter's sensitivity with both in camera & hand held light meters. 

 

Example: With a film or with a sensor with a sensitivity of ISO 100/21: An MR/MR4 meter has a sensitivity range of: F 2 @ 1 Second to F 16 @ 1/1000 Second which is sometimes written:

 

                EV +2 to EV +18 @ ISO 100/21.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

 

No, it's not. As Michael already explained, EV describes the combination of aperture and shutter speed and nothing else. So it is independent of ISO.

 

That's why "EV 8" does not specify a brightness. "EV 8 at ISO 100/21°" does.

 

 

I'd disagree with that statement.   EV 8 specifies a specific amount of light, the brightness if you will.  At least that is what I think of as brightness.   It does not specify how the camera will react, i.e. the camera sensor or films sensitivity to that amount of light.

 

You can convert EV to LUX: LUX = 2.5 * 2^EV

 

Well, various responses above is helping me clarifying my own understanding. After further reading I found that what I was referring to is LV (Light Value) which is independent of camera (and its exposure setting). According to wikipedia article on Light Value, LV is synonymous with EV at ISO 100.

 

Therefore I should have said LV (and not EV).

 

Another article explains the difference as below:

-----------------

Light Values - In Front of the Camera

A light value (LV) is a measure of the luminance of a scene.

Luminance is the amount of light reflecting off of the subject.

In contrast, illumination is the amount of light falling on the subject.

 

Exposure Values - Inside the Camera

An exposure value (EV) is the exposure settings on your camera for a particular combination of light value and ISO.

Light Values ↔ ISO ↔ Exposure Values

Light values are linked to exposure values by way of the ISO setting of the camera.

-----------------------

Edited April 2, 2018 by jmahto

[Jean-Michel]

Just my two cents worth: using EV on a camera with separate aperture and shutter control does not make much sense. Suffice to know that plus or minus one EV equals plus ot minus one stop, one third of an EV equals one third of a stop. In my film days, my cameras were mostly Hasselblad 500CM and C lenses. The C lenses had their aperture and leaf shutter time rings locked together and had an EV scale. So it was easy to read the EV on the light meter and set that on the lens; since the aperture and shutter rings were locked together any combination gave the same exposure. On anything other than a C lens, I read the aperture/shutter scale, if I use an handheld meter, that is.

[pico]

Aw, just keep it simple. Stop the aperture in either direction, and the shutter speed the opposite direction.

[A miller]

Hey Jayant - The fallacy in your premise is that you used a very long FL for a close up photo of a moving subject.  You wouldn't have caught any better with autofocus.

Here's the same FL only at a proper distance...(ahem, drop mic)

135 tele elmar, MM

 

 

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Edited April 3, 2018 by A miller

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jmahto]

Hey Jayant - The fallacy in your premise is that you used a very long FL for a close up photo of a moving subject.  You wouldn't have caught any better with autofocus.

Here's the same FL only at a proper distance...(ahem, drop mic)

135 tele elmar, MM

Nice shot!

 

Yes, that is indeed proper distance... but my cat moves faster than those guys.

 

BTW, quick question. How did you do the metering? Classic metering will overexpose I guess with that kind of lighting. Did you compensate?

Edited April 3, 2018 by jmahto