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M8 & Noctilux focus problem


kic883

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Dear all,

 

I brought a Leica Noctilux 1/50 from ebay and tested with my M8.

All aperture are out of focus except F16 infinite.

 

Attached please find the jpg.

0344 - F1

0345 - F2

0346 - F8

 

I would like to know is there anyone have the same problem as mine?

I haven't tested it on my M7 yet, I am wondering it will have the same problem with my M7. Because it doesn't focus at all on my M8. I don't have such problem with my summicron 2/35mm.

 

Please kindly give comments.

 

Thanks in advanced.

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Hmm. Since you only mention one lens, I'd go down to a Leica dealer and try out a 50 1.4 and check the results.

 

If it doesn't seem out, then your Nocti is out of whack, and perhaps not even engaging the rangefinder focus mechanism. In which case, I would send it to Leica or DAG in the US for a fix. You can also send it to Kindermann Canada; they do an excellent job for about $75 canadian for a tweak.

 

Of course, I'd take this up with the seller, and perhaps with Leica; they can at least tell you how badly the lens is "broken"

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Dear all,

 

I brought a Leica Noctilux 1/50 from ebay and tested with my M8.

All aperture are out of focus except F16 infinite.

 

Attached please find the jpg.

0344 - F1

0345 - F2

0346 - F8

 

I would like to know is there anyone have the same problem as mine?

I haven't tested it on my M7 yet, I am wondering it will have the same problem with my M7. Because it doesn't focus at all on my M8. I don't have such problem with my summicron 2/35mm.

 

Please kindly give comments.

 

Thanks in advanced.

 

Hi Athony

 

sorry to hear that you have problems with your new Nocti.

 

The Nocti is the most critical lens to get sharp images with, because the smallest deviation you may have in your system - sensor adjustement, rangefinger adjustment, lens adjustment, error in focussing - will lead to an immediately obvioius unsharp image.

 

To get my images sharp was a long way of evaluating the problem by testshots and heavy discussions with Leica CS (I will report in more detail in a future thread). As you bought your lens from eBay I guess it is important to check the lens first. Do the following testshots, all with tripod and self timer, aperture open:

 

(1) Focus a subject with a distance of appr. 1 m carefully with the rangefinder. Then do some bracketing by turning the distance setting ring on your lens several times clockwise and counterclockwise. So you get a series of shots just by variing the focus adjustment.

 

(2) Look at the images on your screen 100% magnification to find out whether you get a sharp image with one of the adjustments. If yes it will probably not the first shot that has been adjusted with the rangefinder but one of your bracketing series.

 

(3) Repeat step (1) und (2) with 4 m and about 50 m. Same results?

 

Don’t wonder that you do not find the problem with your 35 mm lens due to its larger depth of field. If you own one try the procedure with another lens with 50, 75 or 90 mm, again aperture wide open. If you find the same problems you have a wrong adjustment of your senser and/or rangefinder - both was the case with my M8.

 

Attached you find the test results (100% crops) I made before my camera was properly adjusted.

 

Left sample adjusted with rangefinder, right sample best shot from bracketing series:

 

 

Noctilux 2 m distance, f/1.0

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Noctilux 45 m distance, f/1.0

 

Tele-Elmarit 90 mm 5 m distance, f/2.8

 

Tele-Elmarit 90 mm 45 m distance, f/2.8

 

Hope this helps to isolate the problem.

 

Best

Holger

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Sorry to hear that you have problem with your Noctilux. I just got one & it's focusing fine. The pevious owner jhad ust recently got it back after sending to Solms for coding.

Maybe it's good to send to Leica for a check.

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Yes, before I ordered a Nocti on the 30% off deal, I had one for almost a week and shot almost exclusively at f1.0 ;)

 

20 GB or so of images later, I concluded that it was the easiest to focus ultra-fast lens I'd ever seen.

 

So when they work, and are in spec--wide open anyway--they really do work very well.

 

Having said that, if there's a shift, I don't know about it, because I literally didn't go more closed than f1.8...

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Anthony,

I am sorry to hear about your problem. The Nocti definitely requires critical focusing. I am not sure what you focused on on you pictures though. The watch on the left? I couldn't see anything in focus, indicating either the lens is completley out-of-whack or you simply mis-focused. Holger's tip to test the lens is great. I just got mine back from Solms for a 6-bit coding work and love it but I am waiting for the 60mm IR cut filter so, I can use this lens more often..... Here is a wide open shot.

 

81074670.jpg

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just the slightest sway back of your head as you press the shutter

or the slightest angle on the centre focusing square

and your pics will look completely blurred

 

any noct tests i suggest doing them very very carefully with tripod, timer and also use a tape measure crossing teh focusing screen diagonally so that you can get the perfect focus on it dead centre of the focusing screen

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Anthony,

 

Sorry to hear about your problem. I had something very similar. I bought a beautiful, mint Noctilux from another forum member just after it had had come back from an expensive, full service and coding at Solms - so I knew it was going to be perfect. Wrong. It was fine before it went for its service but when it came back it was close to 2 meters out at 10 meters, although fine at infinity and only a little bit out at 1 meter. The focus ring read 12 meters when you focused on something 10 meters away. It was equally far out when my very kind local Leica dealer allowed me to try it on two other M8 bodies. You did not need a tape measure to find this one. It is currently back at Solms but I hope to get it back next week. Somewhat worryingly the service confirmation letter says after the rebuild, they expose a test FILM. Hasn't someone told the lens service department that they now have a digital M? Plus I would quite like to get my £50 postage and insurance back for the second trip to Solms but I don't suppose there is much chance of that.

 

Wilson

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I bought a beautiful, mint Noctilux from another forum member just after it had had come back from an expensive, full service and coding at Solms - so I knew it was going to be perfect. Wrong. It was fine before it went for its service but when it came back it was close to 2 meters out at 10 meters, although fine at infinity and only a little bit out at 1 meter. The focus ring read 12 meters when you focused on something 10 meters away. It was equally far out when my very kind local Leica dealer allowed me to try it on two other M8 bodies. You did not need a tape measure to find this one.

 

Wilson

 

Hi Wilson,

I just want to make sure I understand - Are you referring to a difference in focusing scale displayed on the lens at a certain distance and that doesn't match the actual distance? Do you get the object right in focus though if you focus solely using the viewfinder?

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Hi Wilson,

I just want to make sure I understand - Are you referring to a difference in focusing scale displayed on the lens at a certain distance and that doesn't match the actual distance? Do you get the object right in focus though if you focus solely using the viewfinder?

 

Joshua,

 

If you focused on an object say 8 meters away, the focus ring would read just under 10 meters. The image was not sharp. If you reset the focus ring to 8 meters, so that now the images no longer coincided in the VF, the image would be sharp. At first I assumed it had to be my M8's rangefinder but the infinity was OK on both the Noctilux and my Elmarit-M 90. Mid ranges were spot on on the E90. I could adjust the problem out in the mid range by changing the infinity on the rangefinder but that threw out all my other lenses and infinity was wrong also on the Noctilux. The very strange thing was that the Nocti was only a little bit out at closest focus. I think it was Carsten who said it almost seemed as if the focusing cam had the wrong shape. Just to be sure it was not my M8, as I said, I tried it on two other M8's and they had an identical problem, which was semi-reassuring. I spoke to Leica UK and they said this could be a rare but known problem with one of the internal focusing cams on the Nocti, so "cross fingers" it will be right when it comes back next week (if of course, it does). They said it would be ready at the end of this week but it is still tracking as 'in repair'.

 

Wilson

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Wilson,

The Nocti would be the lens that I would not rely on the focusing scale. To be frank, I never checked mine for that but soley rely on the VF for focusing accuracy. In addition, the focusing scale on Leica or any lenses for that matter, is only approximation and not 100% accurate/reliable.

 

Frequently, if I don't want to or don't have time to to focus carefully, I use the focusing scale on the lenses. In that case, I normally limit that hyperfocusing method to wide angle lenses up to 28mm and I stop the aperture down to somewhere around 2.8, 4.0 or even 5.6 to get a more extended depth-of-field.

 

I hope you get your Nocti soon,

 

Joshua

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Dear all,

 

First I would like to thanks to all of your warm comments, I'm glad to be here. You guys are really helping each others. :o

 

About this issue, I have tested it again with my M7, the result is exactly same as my M8. That's proof the Noctilux I got from eBay has serious focusing problem.

 

@Jamie: Thanks, I'm thinking to refund the lens. Now I'm waiting for the reply from seller.

 

@Holger: Thanks for your advice and test instruction. But I guess I don't need to do any further test, since nothing is focus at F1 (1M) on both M7 & M8

 

@Mikey: I envy you, I've been looking for a nice Noctilux.

 

@Joshua: I was focusing on the watch. Yes, you are right, nothing is focus at F1. I was shock after I took the first shot. I thought I have done something wrong or mis-focused. So I double check and took more shot again. Now I know the problem come from the lens not me. Btw, Nice picture~!

 

@Richard: Thanks, but I think I have tested it very carefully.

 

@Wilson: Hope you can get your lens soon without such problem.

 

Btw, one more question, does Leica has lens internal cleaning service? How much ?

 

Best Regards,

Anthony

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Dear all,

 

Btw, one more question, does Leica has lens internal cleaning service? How much ?

 

Best Regards,

Anthony

 

Anthony,

 

I don't think they have a purely lens cleaning facility. They do do a full lens service, for which the price varies after they have assessed your lens. Given the problems at Solms at the moment, I would be very wary about sending them another lens this year unless I had to, as with the Noctilux. Hopefully things will settle down a bit next year, after they have taken on/re-employed more staff. If you can wait, I would.

 

I don't know where you are based but there are alternatives to Leica for lens service. I can advise you for the UK and I am sure other forum members will have first hand experience of lens servicing people in other regions, who they could recommend.

 

Wilson

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Anthony,

 

I don't think they have a purely lens cleaning facility. They do do a full lens service, for which the price varies after they have assessed your lens. Given the problems at Solms at the moment, I would be very wary about sending them another lens this year unless I had to, as with the Noctilux. Hopefully things will settle down a bit next year, after they have taken on/re-employed more staff. If you can wait, I would.

 

I don't know where you are based but there are alternatives to Leica for lens service. I can advise you for the UK and I am sure other forum members will have first hand experience of lens servicing people in other regions, who they could recommend.

 

Wilson

 

Thanks, I'm base in Japan, but currently not in town. I believe they will have such service as well.

 

Anthony

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Wilson,

The Nocti would be the lens that I would not rely on the focusing scale. To be frank, I never checked mine for that but soley rely on the VF for focusing accuracy. In addition, the focusing scale on Leica or any lenses for that matter, is only approximation and not 100% accurate/reliable.

 

Frequently, if I don't want to or don't have time to to focus carefully, I use the focusing scale on the lenses. In that case, I normally limit that hyperfocusing method to wide angle lenses up to 28mm and I stop the aperture down to somewhere around 2.8, 4.0 or even 5.6 to get a more extended depth-of-field.

 

I hope you get your Nocti soon,

 

Joshua

 

Joshua,

 

I would to an extent disagree with your premise. Any quality lens should first and foremost focus to scale at its maximum aperture. Given the high price of the Noctilux, that is an imperative. Only when that is correct, should the rangefinder cam be adjusted so that the image convergence matches the focus scale precisely. It will then follow automatically that the rangefinder adjustment will be accurate. One would accept that aperture focus shift will occur to a greater or lesser extent, dependent upon the amount of aberration correction that has had to be designed into the lens.

 

On many of the ultra expensive Arri-Zeiss lenses, scale focusing and a measuring tape or hand held laser rangefinder is all that many professional film makers ever use. Accurate scale focusing on those is vital. No less would I expect my Noctilux to be accurate to scale (and of course rangefinder) when it comes back from Solms, otherwise I will be asking them for an explanation.

 

Wilson

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Joshua,

 

I would to an extent disagree with your premise. Any quality lens should first and foremost focus to scale at its maximum aperture. Given the high price of the Noctilux, that is an imperative. Only when that is correct, should the rangefinder cam be adjusted so that the image convergence matches the focus scale precisely. It will then follow automatically that the rangefinder adjustment will be accurate. One would accept that aperture focus shift will occur to a greater or lesser extent, dependent upon the amount of aberration correction that has had to be designed into the lens.

 

On many of the ultra expensive Arri-Zeiss lenses, scale focusing and a measuring tape or hand held laser rangefinder is all that many professional film makers ever use. Accurate scale focusing on those is vital. No less would I expect my Noctilux to be accurate to scale (and of course rangefinder) when it comes back from Solms, otherwise I will be asking them for an explanation.

 

Wilson

 

That's odd, I would place accurate scale focusing as my LAST priority. The most important thing to me is that the rangefinder focus works correctly. The only scale focus that I care about is infinity.

But then I never use a tape measure to set the focus on my M8. But who does?

 

Rex

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Joshua,

 

I would to an extent disagree with your premise. Any quality lens should first and foremost focus to scale at its maximum aperture. Given the high price of the Noctilux, that is an imperative. Only when that is correct, should the rangefinder cam be adjusted so that the image convergence matches the focus scale precisely. It will then follow automatically that the rangefinder adjustment will be accurate. One would accept that aperture focus shift will occur to a greater or lesser extent, dependent upon the amount of aberration correction that has had to be designed into the lens.

 

On many of the ultra expensive Arri-Zeiss lenses, scale focusing and a measuring tape or hand held laser rangefinder is all that many professional film makers ever use. Accurate scale focusing on those is vital. No less would I expect my Noctilux to be accurate to scale (and of course rangefinder) when it comes back from Solms, otherwise I will be asking them for an explanation.

 

Wilson

 

Hi Wilson,

I understand and see your point but I am with Rex in this case; the last thing that I would check would be the accuracy of the focusing distance as indicated on the lens. As long as I get the image in focus on the viewfinder and the actual image on the screen/print is also perfectly in focus, I am happy as a clam ;) .

 

About 2 months ago, I posted a thread about the accuracy of hyperfocusing method on the M8 in relation to film M bodies. The consensus indicated that the focusing scale of the M8 would be different than in the film based bodies. With other words, if I set the focusing ring on the lens at 3m and I stop down the lens to f/5.6, the DOF displayed on the lens reads 1.5 to 10mm, the resulting, actual DOF on the M8 would be less, something like between 2 and 6m. These are hypothetical numbers, BTW. If the focusing accuracy of a lens on a film based body is different than on a digital body then all bets are off as well.

 

Again, in an ideal world, yes, the scale on the lens should match the viewfinder info but in reality.... Please let us know when you get the lens back from Solms. I would like to hear their explanation.

 

Thanks,

Joshua

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  • 2 weeks later...

My Noctilux came back from Solms today. It is much better. It is now only 1-2 millimetres if any out at 1 meter, accurate at 5 meters and at infinity. The only distance it seems to have a slight wobble is 10 meters, where it is still back focusing by about 10 cm but a huge improvement from the 150+ cm of before. I am coming to the conclusion that this may be a characteristic of the lens. Still it is a country mile better than before and I now at least have confidence that what I take will be adequately in focus or as good as I can get it.

 

Wilson

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Anthony,

 

Sorry to hear about your problem. I had something very similar. I bought a beautiful, mint Noctilux from another forum member just after it had had come back from an expensive, full service and coding at Solms - so I knew it was going to be perfect. Wrong. It was fine before it went for its service but when it came back it was close to 2 meters out at 10 meters, although fine at infinity and only a little bit out at 1 meter. The focus ring read 12 meters when you focused on something 10 meters away. It was equally far out when my very kind local Leica dealer allowed me to try it on two other M8 bodies. You did not need a tape measure to find this one. It is currently back at Solms but I hope to get it back next week. Somewhat worryingly the service confirmation letter says after the rebuild, they expose a test FILM. Hasn't someone told the lens service department that they now have a digital M? Plus I would quite like to get my £50 postage and insurance back for the second trip to Solms but I don't suppose there is much chance of that.

 

Wilson

I had the same problem with a 21mmElmarit.....never noticed a problem before I had it "6 BIT" modified. Fortunately I paid the extra $50 for the warranty. When I sent it back to NJ ..they eventually sent it to Solms ..Solms asked for $195 to repair the lenses and do a film focus confirmation. After a few phone calls they have now agreed to honor the warranty? My focus was 2-3 ft back of a subject at 10ft..doesn t take much to see it . Point being ..be sure to test anything you send in right away.
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