Can a lens be damaged from the plane's temperature?

[pgk]

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Don't know about Germany .....

 

I'd take a guess that they probably use the same grease as they originally assemble the lens with. Just a guess mind you .

[pico]

As I wrote, the old Leitz grease that DAG has stockpiled, is far superior to the newer grease used by Leica NJ

 

Could it be that DAG has what we called Blackfish oil?

[Jeff S]

I'd take a guess that they probably use the same grease as they originally assemble the lens with. Just a guess mind you .

But the point is that the grease has changed for the worse over the years, at least compared to the replacement supply that NJ uses. And since my new 50 Summilux focus action sucked since new, I'm guessing Germany followed suit at the manufacturing stage.

 

DAG keeps a supply of the Leitz grease used back in the 60's, and for an extended period thereafter, and it made my lens better than when new. It's not the only issue DAG has with current practices.

 

Jeff

[Richardgb]

I can't throw any light on the OP's lens, but as a general comment...

 

When Leica sends items back from repair they use DHL (at least to the UK), well packed in ordinary cartons. I doubt these get special treatment in the DHL machine and would go wherever other parcels go in the aircraft. No problems in anything they've sent to me like that (and courier companies always have a clause to say the carton should be inspected for damage before signing for its delivery).

[tobey bilek]

Perhaps the inspectors saw an anomoly on the X-ray and they opened it for closer inspection.  Then some bozo dropped it.  

 

Or vibration loosened something that was not tightened.   Aircraft vibrate even if you can not feel it.

 

A relative packs well and the gear sits on his lap.  NO CHECKED LUGGAGE.   The little plastic air pillows absorb vibration, the !" or bigger work best.  

[pgk]

But the point is that the grease has changed for the worse over the years, at least compared to the replacement supply that NJ uses. And since my new 50 Summilux focus action sucked since new, I'm guessing Germany followed suit at the manufacturing stage.

 

DAG keeps a supply of the Leitz grease used back in the 60's, and for an extended period thereafter, and it made my lens better than when new. It's not the only issue DAG has with current practices.

 

Jeff

 

Grease is merely a lubricant to ensure free motion of components. Using too viscous or too liquid a grease is making up for another problem. I'm sure that the engineers at Leica specify the appropriate viscosity for the design they produce. My Summilux is and always has been fine, Likewise my Super-Elmar. However I used to have a pre-aspheric 50mm Summilux which got damaged. As a result its focus, whilst quite usable, was stiffer than it had been previously. Leica (Germany repaired it and it was once again fine. I really cannot see that using an 'old formulation grease' is an adjustment solution for mechanical problems with lens helicoids.

[Jeff S]

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Grease is merely a lubricant to ensure free motion of components. Using too viscous or too liquid a grease is making up for another problem. I'm sure that the engineers at Leica specify the appropriate viscosity for the design they produce. My Summilux is and always has been fine, Likewise my Super-Elmar. However I used to have a pre-aspheric 50mm Summilux which got damaged. As a result its focus, whilst quite usable, was stiffer than it had been previously. Leica (Germany repaired it and it was once again fine. I really cannot see that using an 'old formulation grease' is an adjustment solution for mechanical problems with lens helicoids.

Sorry, but I'd rather trust the expertise and many decades of Leica service experience that Don Goldberg, and his dad before him, have with the company and its products. I don't recall the details, but he was able to explain exactly the differences between the older and newer grease, and why his was better and less subject to deterioration.

 

Moreover, even without DAG's commentary, I only need to go by my actual experience. I spoke on the phone with the Leica NJ tech who first worked on my lens. He had the lens in hand as he explained to me that he replaced the grease, but could do no more without fear of making things worse. It was no better when he returned it. A week later, DAG did nothing except replace the grease with his supply, and it has been perfect ever since (over 4 years now).... and in days for only 90 bucks including shipping.

 

So you can keep your theories, and I'll stick with the expert and my own experience.

 

Jeff

[wattsy]

Yep, if there’s one thing a visitor to the forum cannot ever avoid knowing, it’s that Jeff’s sticky Summilux was fixed by DAG using his supply of magic grease.

[pico]

Yep, if there’s one thing a visitor to the forum cannot ever avoid knowing, it’s that Jeff’s sticky Summilux was fixed by DAG using his supply of magic grease.

 

A photographer I know has photographed at both poles. I asked him how his camera's focusing helical worked at sub-zero and he said they were fine, and reluctantly added that they were lubricated using 'black fish' oil, which is now not spoken of. It is a type of whale oil. Maybe DAG has a supply of it.

[Jeff S]

Yep, if there’s one thing a visitor to the forum cannot ever avoid knowing, it’s that Jeff’s sticky Summilux was fixed by DAG using his supply of magic grease.

Oh, not just magic grease; he works magic on lots of other problems that Leica NJ can't solve nearly as effectively, as fast or as inexpensively. Sherry Krauter, too. Good for visitors residing in US to know about 3rd party repair options.

 

BTW, the grease is nothing more than the stuff Leitz used years ago. He was merely wise enough to keep a bunch.

 

Jeff

[M11 for me]

When I was a little boy I had to lubricate my insides with cod-liver oil. When you look at me today this was definitely the best oil.

[pgk]

A photographer I know has photographed at both poles. I asked him how his camera's focusing helical worked at sub-zero and he said they were fine, and reluctantly added that they were lubricated using 'black fish' oil, which is now not spoken of. It is a type of whale oil. Maybe DAG has a supply of it.

 

I think that you may find that to supply such an oil is now illegal in the US so I'd very much doubt it. In any case progress has made many highly effective synthetic oils/greases available which are almost certainly better. It is important to match lubricants with their applications so from my own experience of lubricating sealing 'O' rings, if you don't use the appropriately specified grease then the risk of it not doing its job increases with potentially catastrophic results. I don't know how the mechanical engineers specify which lubricants are needed but I am pretty sure that they don't just hold a finger up into the wind and guess .

[Jeff S]

And sometimes older is better.

 

And folks who best understand the issues and solutions aren't always the decision makers.

 

Jeff

[Herr Barnack]

Based on experience, I would say the high frequency vibration that is caused by the jet engines is the culprit. 

 

My film MP locked up due to this after a 16 hours of flying from the U.S. to Mongolia.  A screw inside had backed out enough from the vibration to cause advancing the film to cease.  Sherry Krauter repaired it and advised wrapping each camera and lens in 1/2" open cell foam rubber, secured with a rubber band before putting them in the Lowepro rolling case I use. 

 

I took her advise and have not had any trouble since.

[pico]

I think that you may find that to supply such an oil is now illegal in the US so I'd very much doubt it. In any case progress has made many highly effective synthetic oils/greases available which are almost certainly better.

 

I think it would be helpful if you cited your claim of illegality, including the fish species.

Regarding natural products superior to synthetics - show me an adequate synthetic substitute for gelatin.

[Jared]

Two kinds of fools in the world... Those who say, "This is old and therefore good," and those who say, "This is new and therefore better."

 

There are lots of different greases available now just as there were in the past.  I have no idea if, when, or why Leica might have changed their specification along the way.  Obviously, there is more to consider than just viscosity.  In a camera lens, it is particularly important that the grease not be prone to oil separation.  Also, similar viscosity under a range of temperatures would be important.  Finally, now that many Leica lenses have two rather than one helicoids (floating elements), it is probably important to use a lower viscosity than perhaps was optimal in the past.  But to the original poster's question... It seems really unlikely to me that temperature in the cargo hold of an aircraft could have had any effect--either long term or short term--on the operation of the lens.  

[jcatral14]

...the lens is checked in with the luggage....

 

I see the problem...

I would send it back to Leica. GL

[wattsy]

Oh, not just magic grease; he works magic on lots of other problems that Leica NJ can't solve nearly as effectively, as fast or as inexpensively. Sherry Krauter, too. Good for visitors residing in US to know about 3rd party repair options.

 

 

I know, I'm just pulling your leg. I wish we had DAG in the UK. If nothing else, he'd have been able to smooth the focus action on my 50 Summilux (which was always a bit stiffer than ideal).

[pgk]

I think it would be helpful if you cited your claim of illegality, including the fish species.

Regarding natural products superior to synthetics - show me an adequate synthetic substitute for gelatin.

 

There is a whole raft of legislation including your Endangered Species Act of 1973 and of course CITES and plenty more which you can look up. In some countries it is, I believe, illegal to import whale products. Apart from these, anyone knowingly using whale oil (and I'm referring to that from the once commercially utilised whale species) would risk serious commercial damage from many quarters by using it. If I were a repairer rumoured to use whale oil I would most certainly refute it, quickly. A relative worked on a whaling station and always maintained that when commercial whaling was in progress it was because we needed their oil for specific purposes but, as he said, whaling ceased to be commercially viable and effective substitutes became available. Gelating is not an oil and for photographic film has been superseded by digital .

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Hallo,

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[Perspectives]

I can't throw any light on the OP's lens, but as a general comment...

 

When Leica sends items back from repair they use DHL (at least to the UK), well packed in ordinary cartons. I doubt these get special treatment in the DHL machine and would go wherever other parcels go in the aircraft. No problems in anything they've sent to me like that (and courier companies always have a clause to say the carton should be inspected for damage before signing for its delivery).

 

I don't think one flights poor baggage handling of a lens safely packed inside luggage will have a worse ride than suffering the injustice of being sent half way across the world and man handled by DHL.

 

Manual prime lenses are pretty robust, I'm sure many have seen a lens that's previously been accidentally dropped naked onto concrete or similar, impact to the degree that the filter mount has bent but the lens still focusses smoothly, works fine, gets great shots. Sent in for repair the lens tech uses a filter straightening tool to reset the filter mount and the lens carries on as before. Without any sign of physical damage I highly doubt a plane ride in the baggage hold caused any damage to the lens, I'd go with there being an issue with the lens service, if anything.

 

But we are all speculating wildly, I'd use the lens and see if it loosens up, just as long as there is no indication of grinding, if after a few weeks of use it's still not what you expected then send it back to Leica or Jeff's man DAG, they'll easily get to the bottom of it.

 

Oh, not just magic grease; he works magic on lots of other problems that Leica NJ can't solve nearly as effectively, as fast or as inexpensively. Sherry Krauter, too. Good for visitors residing in US to know about 3rd party repair options.

 

BTW, the grease is nothing more than the stuff Leitz used years ago. He was merely wise enough to keep a bunch.

 

Jeff

 

The way some people are carrying on you'd think the Leica factory and their authorised service centres are all a bunch of amateurs, it's anyone's guess how these buffoons managed to design and manufacture such incredible lenses in the first place..