TL2 without Adobe 98 Profile

[aufderlauer]

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Hi

 

has anybody an idea why Leica excluded the Adobe 98 Profile, offering only SRGB profile for the colors? The range of colors is limited. How about the dynamic range of the cam? And how does it handle the RAW - files, with 10, 12 or 14 bit?

 

When I see the pictures online it is of course reduced to SRGB and 8bit as jpeg. But cameras can show more than that and how does it compare in this regard with the M10 or SL?

 

Daniel

[aufderlauer]

Ok, let me explain a bit more to understand my point.

Around 10years ago, when the Leica M8 was on the market, photographers were experimenting with the new digital world of photography. (here one link of 2007, seen in this forum:  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/39183-working-color-space-setting-on-the-m8/ ) The M8 offered SRGB, Adobe 98 and ECI profile.

For a richer color gamut and profiles you need a well controlled environment. Optimally you have a profiled camera, hardware profiled monitor with big gamut (Adobe 98) and a calibrated printer. In this controlled circumstances you are able to see more colors than under standard conditions.

All monitors available just show something like SRGB colors, most of them are not properly adjusted. Web uses only SRGB range of colors, jpeg output is limited to 8bit accuracy - a digital back of an expensive camera can record 16bit, what gives you the biggest amount of colors.

Good cameras like Nikon D810 (and many others) can record under RAW 14bit. RAW has no specific color profile, this is installed when you save it on your computer as a Tiff or jpeg. Saving them without a profile is surely wrong. Then a specific red tone can only be reproduced when you tell your software, how it has to be shown.

 

to illustrate this I show you a picture

 

 

 

Here we can see obviously, that a printed matte white paper looks a bit different then what you can see on your (calibrated) monitor. Maybe it fits all the colors what you captured, maybe some colors are lost or muted.

 

At last I just want to say, that Leica knows very well, why they didn't implemented even a richer color profile like Adobe98 to their TL2, because this camera is more intended to this kind of camera user, who want to work easy without thinking to much about technology, more picture oriented. No technical Blabla, just concentrating for easy output and sharing of pictures (in the world wide standard SRGB profile), where everybody can deal with it.

 

Sometimes it is very relaxing not to think to much when doing pictures with the camera, just easy capturing and sending to your people, no time for tweaks and optimizing.  And this on a very high level of optical quality. Think this is the real character Leica was implementing in this camera.

 

Don't understand me wrong: I don't speak of nice composing of the picture, just the software based limitation for easy sharing. 

Certainly with RAW the camera shows, what it really is capable of capturing. I checked again the updated review of Thorsten Overgaard: wow very very detailed and rich informations, pictures and explanations of everything. He also mentioned the 14bit accuracy of DNG files. So we can see, that Leica has the necessary inside for good transitions of colors, if needed in the RAW format. So at last no complaint - if I want I can always put Adobe98 profile to a jpeg, converted from a 14bit RAW .

 

I am more and more biased to order a TL2 silver with 35/1.4 and EVF, for me a big financial deal. After a lot of experience with any kind of brands and systems, I conclude to stay with one simple system you like to take with you, everywhere you go. It's always a compromise whatever you choose. I still give the expected "Clooney" thing a chance to change my thinking. But for today I think this Leica L-Bayonet is my future system.

One can say, for the same money I can buy the new Nikon D850 with one 50mm lens, and it will be the super camera in generally. But I know, it is to big and heavy for my liking, I don't earn my money with picture taking, so I shouldn't spend any thinking about it. And as I said before: limiting yourself can make you more free! 

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[LocalHero1953]

Do you mean AdobeRGB? I've never heard of Adobe98, but that may just be my ignorance.

And are you asking why the TL2 doesn't use Adobe98 for jpgs? I don't have an answer, but there are quite a lot of other features that one has less control over compared to, say, the M and SL, as if Leica intends this camera for those who are less interested in the details in the menus and just want a simple system.

 

Edit. It may also be that Leica has struggled to get to grips with this novel menu interface, and so have only implemented a limited set of options - future firmware updates may give an expanded range of controls. One indication that this may be the case is that there are lots of discrepancies between the user guide and the actual menu system, as if they were still developing it right up to the time of release.

[jaapv]

It is not quite true that monitors will only render sRGB. Eizo CG and NEC Spectracolor screens will render (very close to) Adobe RGB, whilst Mac Retina screens will show P3 -which is about the same as AdobeRGB except for the greens.Many Leica owners will be using these more upmarket screens. On top of that Adobe has implemented ProPhoto in their software (not too difficult in a LAB-based program ) in anticipation of the development of wider-gamut devices.

 

 

 

 

I think it is a mistake not to offer the option of wider colour spaces in the T series cameras.  Although a non-expert user may struggle with over-saturation in case of out-of-gamut colours, setting the default to sRGB and offering Adobe RGB in the menu seems to me to be a logical thing to do.

 

However, they are right to set sRGB as the standard, as any mistake in wide colour space management will show up in the end, especially in dull reds and purples in a print or web image.