Aspect ratio 1 x 1 i.e. square

[Guest]

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I like the format 1 x 1 sometimes. I know where to change this in post processing in Lightroom where I do my editing.

 

Question 1 I think it is not possible with an M10 to change the Aspect Ratio - am I correct?

 

When you do change it in Lightroom and the picture was taken with a 90mm lens does that act like a crop factor? Does the image then look as if it was taken with a lens of 120mm or not? Just curious! Is it just the field of view that seems to change, or is it simply cropping the edges and the image does not change?

[Jeff S]

No specific camera setting, but of course one can attempt to visualize results...with possible use of alternate frame lines.

 

A 90 is always a 90, but cropping does change field of view (and reduce pixels and potentially print size), and of course change the image itself. The smaller M8 sensor essentially cropped in-camera.... a 90 was still a 90, but the field of view was essentially a 120. But unlike cropping in post, what you see in the M8 VF is the final image (unless cropped further in post).

 

Perspective only changes by changing subject to camera distance, not by cropping or focal length change.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Thanks Jefffor the clarification.

[jdlaing]

And there's the misconception. The M-8 or any other camera did not crop anything in camera. The size of the sensor used a portion of an image circle provided by a lens. That's not the same as cropping. Cropping uses a portion of a captured image by reducing what was delivers by a sensor. If a sensor is designed to,deliver a certain size image with a specific number of pixels that's what it delivers. If you chop off the sides, top or bottom to hide something or get a smaller field of view then that is cropping.

[Jeff S]

And there's the misconception. The M-8 or any other camera did not crop anything in camera. The size of the sensor used a portion of an image circle provided by a lens. That's not the same as cropping. Cropping uses a portion of a captured image by reducing what was delivers by a sensor. If a sensor is designed to,deliver a certain size image with a specific number of pixels that's what it delivers. If you chop off the sides, top or bottom to hide something or get a smaller field of view then that is cropping.

No misconception. The M8 crops in comparison to a 'full frame' 35mm sensor, from the same position with the same lens. As I wrote, the image is rendered just as seen in the VF....uncropped in that sense.

 

Jeff

[jdlaing]

It is a misconception. The word crop is thrown around to liberally. It was designed and sold as APS-H. It uses 100% of the sensor area. 35mm is not full frame to begin with. If you want to use that method then 35mm is also,a cropped image from Large ir Medium format.

[Jeff S]

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It is a misconception. The word crop is thrown around to liberally. It was designed and sold as APS-H. It uses 100% of the sensor area. 35mm is not full frame to begin with. If you want to use that method then 35mm is also,a cropped image from Large ir Medium format.

I understand all that.... hence full frame in quotes, along with 35mm clarification. The goal was to help the OP deal with his confusion, while sticking with the 35 mm format and the M he uses. In that context, a semantics war won't help him. He asked about cropped field of view, and that's what PP cropping does, with the same end result as one could achieve with a smaller sensor (even if you disagree that smaller equals cropped in this sense) using the same lens and camera position.

 

Jeff

[jdlaing]

It's not a semantics war. Two whole different subjects. The aspect ratio can't be changed in a M camera. That's the answer to question #1. The answer to question #2 is yes it is a cropped image in Lightroom. The true meaning of crop.

[Jeff S]

Cropped field of view when using a 90mm lens on an M8 vs an M9.... identical aspect ratio.

 

That's how I'm 'framing' the discussion.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

with the same end result as one could achieve with a smaller sensor

 

Jeff

 

With a smaller sensor like APSC an lets take the TL2 here an M 90 lens becomes 127mm i.e. even more telephoto end result.

 

Now back on the M with 90mm, take a picture, into Lightroom and change Aspect Ratio to 1x1, now how does the result compare with the photo taken with the TL2.

 

This is where my confusion lies trying to understand the effect changing the aspect ratio makes. Do I just crop the sides to make a square but otherwise not affect the image, or does it change the telephoto effect of the lens used?

[willemr]

You're changing it in a way as if the photo was taken with a 1:1 ratio sensor/film, but with the same lens. So instead of the 35.8 x 23.9 mm it becomes a 23.9 x 23.9mm sensor photo. This doesn't change anything on the lens part. You're just missing some data on either side of the photo (if you crop to the middle).

If you start cropping to a smaller 1:1 surface (like zooming in) than you're significantly changing the field of view, but not the characteristics of the lens effect.

This video shows what happens while using the same field of view, but with different focal lengths (and with different distances to the subject).

[Jeff S]

If you make a print and cut off the edges to make it square, you've essentially done the same thing as cropping in Lightroom. Either way, you haven't changed the way the image renders in the remaining parts of the image (no lens effect). You have, however, limited the degree to which you can enlarge the remaining pic without losing resolution.

 

If you get closer or farther away from your subject, perspective changes ( the relationship between near and far objects). If you stand in the same place and zoom your lens, perspective remains the same, but field of view changes.

 

Forget about sensor size.... that's likely to confuse the issue.... or start another debate. The image seen is the image taken.... I used the concept of 'cropping' only in a relative sense when comparing formats when taking pics from identical spots with the same lens, which you're unlikely to ever do (but it would be a fun exercise).

 

Jeff

[paulsydaus]

Easy solution, Leica install a 36mm x 36mm sensor in the M11 ;-)

 

 

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