imported_peter_m Posted June 26, 2007 Share #1  Posted June 26, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) What dose everyone do? You scan RGB or Grayscale? Any advantages to one or the other?  Thank you  Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 Hi imported_peter_m, Take a look here Scanning B&W. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
samwells Posted June 26, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted June 26, 2007 I scan b&w negs as rgb color slides on a Nikon 5000ED - this gives me a 'negative' in Photoshop. It's always seemed to give me the best results. cheers: Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted June 26, 2007 For whatever reason I lose a lot of detail in mid tones scanning silver based b&w with sRGB on the minolta 5400II. Never got to the bottom of it, it just didnt work by a long long way and wasnt worth persevering with. Â Someone can set me straight I will try it again. Â sRGB colour negs and desaturating is another story, and easier than scanning traditional b&w films. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #4  Posted June 26, 2007 Following APX100 crops from Minolta 5400II using native software. Original file size scanned as colour neg 120MB, for BW negative 40MB  Scanned as Colour neg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Scanned as Colour neg desaturate  Scanned as BW negative.  Vic is using Silverfast and seems to do ok, so it can be done. Not sure which scanner. Anyone has any tips or knows a setting I am going wrong on let me know Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Scanned as Colour neg desaturate  Scanned as BW negative.  Vic is using Silverfast and seems to do ok, so it can be done. Not sure which scanner. Anyone has any tips or knows a setting I am going wrong on let me know ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27526-scanning-bw/?do=findComment&comment=290595'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 26, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted June 26, 2007 Desaturating is NOT the way to go for B&W conversion, you need either to use the channel mixer, or the B&W conversion in PSE5 or one of the many progams offered for conversion (Alien Skin springs to mind) By simply desaturating you do indeed get the kind of insipid result shown below. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted June 26, 2007 I am just showing what detail is in the file and the detail that is lost, from the b&w neg scan. Comparative Jaap, none of these crops are edited into view or print presentable form. Â For what is it worth desaturation of a colour neg scanned as sRGB can be a very good way to go. You can always convert the desaturated back to rgb and channel mix. Unless you are one of the people who cant think things through and needs a plug in to hold your hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted June 26, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted June 26, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I use a first series 5400 w/SilverFast software. The only bw film I have scanned as color is HP5. All others do great as 16-bit greyscale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted June 26, 2007 Share #8  Posted June 26, 2007 hi all.. scanning b/w is a really tricky thing.. i will post soon some nice thread to help people starting with b/w and film photography, so, alongside the developing of b/w film in home conditions, i will touch scanning issues too..  rob.. at home/studio i use epson flatbad scanner.. it is just good enough for my purposes as fast proof pics and ilustrator...  indeed.. i use the HDR 48 bit (colour) option to scan all the thing i want and later on i process them without being attached and stacked to the scanner.. and here too, i convert it to 24bit colur and disaturate it, and the results are better and more accaptable... by the way.... creo scanner (proabably the top scanner) scans the b/w negatives in specially developed profiles by creo people for their oxygen software... they call it tri-grey-profile.. and indeed - you get three channel (48bit) grey rich file instead of the common 16bit grey files that are simply dull in comparison (you see the big dulness when you start to process the file for quality print). of course i prefer and love to make b/w in the darkroom, but if not darkroom, this is the only alternative i think..  silverfast is a must to make nice scans i think, unless you use creo with oxygen ) in silverfast - there is NEGAFIX... learn how to work with it and the differances will be substencial..  bellwo is a smale how NEGAFIX can put you in the rite direction from the first step and then the adjustment of the final image is really eassy.. actually.. with negafix, you choose and and direct the software about the way that the possitive image as recorder should be inverted (to become really possitive photograph)... the "calibration" of invertion can be hand--custom-made (very eassy and the best thing and also can be saved and re-used) or can be selevted in predefined options in silverfast itself. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27526-scanning-bw/?do=findComment&comment=290660'>More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted June 26, 2007 First time I have seen the HDR interface. So you are pre scan processing adjusting hues and contrasts in curves and saving settings for teh batch before hitting scan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #10  Posted June 26, 2007 Ok, by scanning 16bit I am seeing a minor difference in the scan as b&w but not a lot and image editing 8bit far exceeds any gains in the 16bit.  By scanning 16bit in the scan as colour setting I am seeing a huge difference. Whether I can get it to catch up with teh scan as b&w I havent worked out yet. Worth looking at for me though.  Obviously this crop is back to RGB for jpg save, but it isnt the blothy shitty file that the 8bit produced and the b&w conversion from the 16bit file looks fine. You can see the file is twice the size, if I remember right, as the b&w scan.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27526-scanning-bw/?do=findComment&comment=290700'>More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted June 26, 2007 Nahh...For smooth shapes it gives a nice look but the b&w conversion of the 16bit colour scan still doesnt have anywhere near the definition of the 8bit greyscale scan, let alone the 16bit grey. It looks nice but.... Â Yea so anyway, it is still a struggle with the minolta. And this isnt printing, where you dont have to convert back to jpg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted June 26, 2007 The other complication is that in 16 bit I only get Sharpen. Converting to eight gives me options Adaptive unsharp, Directional sharpen, Sharpen, and Unsharp mask. Thats ok for web stuff cause you should apply your sharpening to the final sized file. Dunno how to work about it for printing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted June 26, 2007 Share #13  Posted June 26, 2007 I use a Coolscan 4000ED. Scanning a B&W silver or chromogenic film in RGB is always better compared to Grayscale. 42 bit is always better compared to 24 bit. Sometimes it is better to scan as a negative sometimes it is better to scan as a positive. This depends on the negative.  rgs  Luc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemayeux Posted June 26, 2007 Share #14  Posted June 26, 2007 One thing that seems to help on my 5400 is to set it for 16 passes and 16 bit resolution, scanning it as RGB. I think I picked this tip up from John Mead on this forum but not sure. Here is an example scanned with 8 passes  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/19534-night-shot-carnival.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 26, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted June 26, 2007 This thread reminds me... It was the hassle of scanning that pushed me over the edge towards digital:o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 26, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted June 26, 2007 so))))................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter55 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #17  Posted June 26, 2007 This thread reminds me... It was the hassle of scanning that pushed me over the edge towards digital:o  And you never ever do any Post Processing on your DSLR digital files so now you are on easy street. Am I correct?  Stay there! Leave us alone please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter55 Posted June 26, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted June 26, 2007 Sorry guy's this is a very good thread, please continue. I scan C-41 B&W negatives from Kodak 400CN film on my PlusTek OpticFilm 7200 dedicated film scanner and the results are very acceptable. The included SilverFast V.6.2 software does a very good job and I have many choices on how to scan. Among them is the I select the Film type: B&W, the mfr:Kodak, and the ISO:400. I can also scan in 8,16 & 48 bit and greyscale. There are other settings like Standard, Landscape, Techno that I fool around with for each shot sometimes in order to get the look that I like. Anyway I would beiterested in this thread continuig as I hope to learn from it. I would have to turn my other computer on and also the scanner and open the SilverFast SCan program and then have a look at the settings, all this if I really needed to focus on his problem. I would do it if asked. But also I have a dofferent scanner and perhaps it just gives a different output.I don't really know for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted June 27, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted June 27, 2007 Pete, Â I always figured the scanner hardware, the mirrors the lens the lightsource the carrier transporter, sets the benchmark, and all you can achieve is what that is capable of. So the native file scanned at maximum settings is the most information you can gather from whatever you are scanning. Â It might be that minolta really had their software really sorted out, and others dont, but I doubt it. Manipulation post scanning should get you whatever Vuescan or Silverfast deliver you. Ive dl stuff over the last year or so from both these where they show what they can derive as opposed to someone elses software, and each time I can turn the theirs into the oppositions and vice versa. Â I agree the silverfast and vuescan options, and for that matter any plug in, will take you to an outcome rather than having to work for it but nothing is going to get you what isnt in the file in the first place. Â I would love to get hold of silverfast, and I admit my scanning isnt all that flash yet, but I wonder whether it isnt a grass is always greener thing. I dont have to work to a deadline. So learning rather than relying isnt doing me any harm. I learned a lot about image editing working up small digital files. Now I am scanning larger it isnt quite the hard slog but the techniques are there and I often still use them. Â Eventually I see something like silverfast scan and print for the streamlined convenience and the convenient profiles. But for the moment I am still in school so to speak. Â Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_peter_m Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share #20 Â Posted June 27, 2007 Interesting responses. Looks like I am not the only one flopping around with scanning B&W film. Just started and only scanned a few frames from the first couple rolls I developed. Been scanning at 16 bit grayscale. Looks like this dose need some more investigation. Wonder if you scan grayscale if the scanner software is just recording one of the RGB channels and discarding the other two? Vic you seam to be getting some rather nice results. Â I just started using a 5000ED not so sure about Nikon Scan, but then maybe I am just more familiar with Vue Scan and I sure like the raw option. Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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